Development and Discussion

[DukeAl]

Hi, I'm now 24h into a game with a friend using your mods (InfOre,Refining,PetroChem) and we really enjoy the added layer of complexity.
There is just one thing making me go nuts though. I spend a considerable amount of time searching for the carbon recipe which is now called coke purification. Thats a really bad idea. Every recipe in vanilla is named after the product it produced not the process it takes to make it. Doing it your way makes the search function useless. Nothing shows up when typing carbon in there.... Maybe you could put the process name in the description and call it carbon again?
The other problem is a vanilla issue bobsmods already suffers from. Its the recipes with multiple outputs not showing the names of them. In your case the similar icons make it even more difficult to guess which one's which. But i doubt there is any real fix for that.
And last, i couldn't figure out what chlor methane gas (typo mehtane in game) and ammonium chloride gas is used for. What-is-it-used-for doesn't know either...
Aside that, the quality of your mod and its graphics is incredible. So thank you for all the work it must have taken. We will add smelting as soon as it is in a playable state for sure.

[steinio]

I stumbled also over the carbon problem.
Took a while and some courage to setup something and hope there comes out carbon

Also it would be nice if the coke could be the same like py's coalification coke.

Greetings steinio

[mexmer]

i did notice one thing, when i was setting up new train station.
i wanted to use silos for buffering ore (which i do after some time), but then i did notice, that silo actually store "less" than my current unloading setup

unloading setup is 8 steel boxes with inserters inbetween (eg. row of 4 boxes, 4 inserters, 4 boxes) - this has layout 3x4 and can store 8x48 = 396 stacks - assuming you using steel chests, angel silo has 4x4 layout and can contain 256 stacks
material wise they are definetly cheaper, than 8 boxes + 4 for inserters, energy wise also but you don't place such thing to save energy or material, but to save "space", which is not what you can achieve with silo

at early game, you will rather sacrifice stone over inserters, but in late game, you will rather have more space. so i'm not sure what is proper solution here.

also mind, one more thing, in late, you will replace one row of boxes with providers boxes (for bot network), silos are not logic network aware, therefore you need to unload them, to put stuff into bot network.

[Arch666Angel]

Any news about plans to rework bio processing chain of processing mod - if smelting mod is a separate mod, so procsesing mod is possible to be separated too?

Algae Farm


And first attempt for a new bio-processing-plant (but I'm not happy with this one, so will be redone)

Hi, I'm now 24h into a game with a friend using your mods (InfOre,Refining,PetroChem) and we really enjoy the added layer of complexity.
There is just one thing making me go nuts though. I spend a considerable amount of time searching for the carbon recipe which is now called coke purification. Thats a really bad idea. Every recipe in vanilla is named after the product it produced not the process it takes to make it. Doing it your way makes the search function useless. Nothing shows up when typing carbon in there.... Maybe you could put the process name in the description and call it carbon again?
The other problem is a vanilla issue bobsmods already suffers from. Its the recipes with multiple outputs not showing the names of them. In your case the similar icons make it even more difficult to guess which one's which. But i doubt there is any real fix for that.
And last, i couldn't figure out what chlor methane gas (typo mehtane in game) and ammonium chloride gas is used for. What-is-it-used-for doesn't know either...
Aside that, the quality of your mod and its graphics is incredible. So thank you for all the work it must have taken. We will add smelting as soon as it is in a playable state for sure.

The new factorio version changes this by itself, forcing the item name on the recipe even if you have set a different name for it, so I guess that solves the single product recipe problem. For the multiple output recipes I cant do much, I was planing adding the products to the description, but you cant set description to recipes. I made a feature request for that perhaps they do something about that.
The only other solution I can think of at the moment is working with dummy items in these recipes.

Edit: Dummy items wont work either, search function is not reading from the descriptions, so I will have to add the products to all the name strings then to help out.

Chlor-Methane will be used in bio-processing and has no other uses at the moment. Ammonium chloride is used in the smelting mod. All these will be disabled when I'm sure with the structure and only loaded when the other mods are active.

Thanks a lot and yeah it takes some work to create these, but reading such comment as yours make it worth it

I stumbled also over the carbon problem.
Took a while and some courage to setup something and hope there comes out carbon

Also it would be nice if the coke could be the same like py's coalification coke.

Greetings steinio

I will work with py to make the mod compatible as soon as he is ready for it.

i did notice one thing, when i was setting up new train station.
i wanted to use silos for buffering ore (which i do after some time), but then i did notice, that silo actually store "less" than my current unloading setup

unloading setup is 8 steel boxes with inserters inbetween (eg. row of 4 boxes, 4 inserters, 4 boxes) - this has layout 3x4 and can store 8x48 = 396 stacks - assuming you using steel chests, angel silo has 4x4 layout and can contain 256 stacks
material wise they are definetly cheaper, than 8 boxes + 4 for inserters, energy wise also but you don't place such thing to save energy or material, but to save "space", which is not what you can achieve with silo

at early game, you will rather sacrifice stone over inserters, but in late game, you will rather have more space. so i'm not sure what is proper solution here.

also mind, one more thing, in late, you will replace one row of boxes with providers boxes (for bot network), silos are not logic network aware, therefore you need to unload them, to put stuff into bot network.

Yeah I was surprised how much response the silos got, they are meant more as an eye candy so you have another visual indicator where which ore goes, but there will be other addons with tanks and chests/silo in the same fashion as well as probably a logistic addon/variant with some more generic chests and storehouses.

[Mooncat]

... I was planing adding the products to the description, but you cant set description to recipes. ...

Actually, you can. Add this in the recipe prototype:

Code: Select all

localised_description = {"localisation key"}

[mexmer]

Yeah I was surprised how much response the silos got, they are meant more as an eye candy so you have another visual indicator where which ore goes, but there will be other addons with tanks and chests/silo in the same fashion as well as probably a logistic addon/variant with some more generic chests and storehouses.

fluid and gas tanks in petrochems are fine i think, either material/storage or footprint/storage seems to be ok, when compared to vanilla.
guess silos are too old

[gheift]

Hi, I'm now 24h into a game with a friend using your mods (InfOre,Refining,PetroChem) and we really enjoy the added layer of complexity.
There is just one thing making me go nuts though. I spend a considerable amount of time searching for the carbon recipe which is now called coke purification. Thats a really bad idea. Every recipe in vanilla is named after the product it produced not the process it takes to make it. Doing it your way makes the search function useless. Nothing shows up when typing carbon in there.... Maybe you could put the process name in the description and call it carbon again?
The other problem is a vanilla issue bobsmods already suffers from. Its the recipes with multiple outputs not showing the names of them. In your case the similar icons make it even more difficult to guess which one's which. But i doubt there is any real fix for that.
And last, i couldn't figure out what chlor methane gas (typo mehtane in game) and ammonium chloride gas is used for. What-is-it-used-for doesn't know either...
Aside that, the quality of your mod and its graphics is incredible. So thank you for all the work it must have taken. We will add smelting as soon as it is in a playable state for sure.

The new factorio version changes this by itself, forcing the item name on the recipe even if you have set a different name for it, so I guess that solves the single product recipe problem. For the multiple output recipes I cant do much, I was planing adding the products to the description, but you cant set description to recipes. I made a feature request for that perhaps they do something about that.
The only other solution I can think of at the moment is working with dummy items in these recipes.

Edit: Dummy items wont work either, search function is not reading from the descriptions, so I will have to add the products to all the name strings then to help out.

Chlor-Methane will be used in bio-processing and has no other uses at the moment. Ammonium chloride is used in the smelting mod. All these will be disabled when I'm sure with the structure and only loaded when the other mods are active.

Thanks a lot and yeah it takes some work to create these, but reading such comment as yours make it worth it

I had the same problem to figure out what gas is used where. So I added the products to the most recipe names.

One thing I noticed: To create the ceramic filter you need alumina, but the alumina created by the smelting mod is a different one to the one created by bobplates.

For PetroChem, I would add Nitrogen 3 as a dependency of the rocket silo tech.

By the way: great mods!

Thanks,
Gerhard

[koenusz]

I would like to report a bug for angels smelting,

The ore processing machine (mk2) cannot accept quartz ore for the processed silicon recipe. The message for the name I get is "unknown key:"item-name.silica.ore"

[aklesey1]

Ooooohh yeah, now we have bio procesing mod, big thanks to u Arch666Angel, good work!

[Peppe]

On the smelting mod,
Blast furnace Mk II - IV require brass pipe.

Those 3 buildings are the only things in the mod that require bob's logistics. I know you don't follow bob's style of everything being standalone/modular, but maybe an opportunity for an alt recipe or sub the brass pipe for brass plate or brass gear?

[Arch666Angel]

... I was planing adding the products to the description, but you cant set description to recipes. ...

Actually, you can. Add this in the recipe prototype:

Code: Select all

localised_description = {"localisation key"}

Oh have to remember that one for the ores description, to change them depending on config. The problem with recipes is that the search function would not go through the description strings.

I had the same problem to figure out what gas is used where. So I added the products to the most recipe names.

One thing I noticed: To create the ceramic filter you need alumina, but the alumina created by the smelting mod is a different one to the one created by bobplates.

For PetroChem, I would add Nitrogen 3 as a dependency of the rocket silo tech.

By the way: great mods!

Thanks,
Gerhard

Yeah I did go along these lines for now, I guess it works so you can at least find the recipes with the search function. Thanks for the cfg!

Yeah that's probably a good idea to add nitrogen 4 as a dependecy to rocketry.

I would like to report a bug for angels smelting,

The ore processing machine (mk2) cannot accept quartz ore for the processed silicon recipe. The message for the name I get is "unknown key:"item-name.silica.ore"

fixed that for the next version

[koenusz]

Great,

I forgot to add in my last post that I absolutely love the smelting mod. It is awesome!

[zekthemad]

The other problem is a vanilla issue bobsmods already suffers from. Its the recipes with multiple outputs not showing the names of them. In your case the similar icons make it even more difficult to guess which one's which. But i doubt there is any real fix for that.

I was struggling with this with the petrochem mod as well but I found this program called Foreman (https://bitbucket.org/Nicksaurus/foreman) that helped a lot. Foreman lets you make flowcharts for the recipes, but the main use I found is that it tells you what you can use items for. For example, if you add a node for the oil refining, you can drag the naptha output up and see everything that directly uses naptha

On another note: small alien artifacts. I am using Peace Mod on my current playthrough and I cannot find any way to get small alien artifacts. It looks like you need them to make them and since there are no biters and I can't use the alien ore to make them I was stuck. Is it possible to add an alternate recipe for the small alien artifacts (maybe with a much higher cost) that would allow me to bootstrap the production?

I am really enjoying these mods. I will have to hurry finish up my current playthrough and try the smelting one as well

[Arch666Angel]

The other problem is a vanilla issue bobsmods already suffers from. Its the recipes with multiple outputs not showing the names of them. In your case the similar icons make it even more difficult to guess which one's which. But i doubt there is any real fix for that.

I was struggling with this with the petrochem mod as well but I found this program called Foreman (https://bitbucket.org/Nicksaurus/foreman) that helped a lot. Foreman lets you make flowcharts for the recipes, but the main use I found is that it tells you what you can use items for. For example, if you add a node for the oil refining, you can drag the naptha output up and see everything that directly uses naptha

On another note: small alien artifacts. I am using Peace Mod on my current playthrough and I cannot find any way to get small alien artifacts. It looks like you need them to make them and since there are no biters and I can't use the alien ore to make them I was stuck. Is it possible to add an alternate recipe for the small alien artifacts (maybe with a much higher cost) that would allow me to bootstrap the production?

I am really enjoying these mods. I will have to hurry finish up my current playthrough and try the smelting one as well

I hope that the recent changes to the game itself and the localization will help with this issue, also take a look at the mods I recommend on the petrochem modportal page: "what is it used for mod" and "always visible product icon mod"

If you use the peace mod you should get the ore from the mod, infiniteores wont remove these. The alien artefact chain will return to the bio processing mod, I'm currently reworking it a bit to go along the other processes.

[gheift]

The new bioprocess is awesome. You can make plastic from raw wood or crushed stone!

With raw wood:
raw-wood → cellulose fiber → methanol gas (+ purified water) → propane gas → plastic

With crushed stone:
cellulose fiber → wood-pellets → carbon dioxide
crushed stone + purified water → mineralized water
mineralized water + carbon dioxide → green algae → cellulose fiber …

[Breith]

The smelting steps are faster if going at full throughput, vanilla plates recipes are 1 per 3,5 seconds, casting machines will pump out 2 per 4 seconds. Also yes it's to expand later to make alloys from ingots, so there will be different steel mixtures, another things is you can get interesting setups because of the fact that the metal can go into pipes (casting machines and smelter will cooling water sometime in the future too).

Fundamentally this isn't true though, the smeltery is flat out worse. In the same space with the same power/coal/input, stone furnaces beat the new smelting hands down. Using the new smeltery, in 13.3 seconds (4+4+2 / .75) 300kw of coal and 4 ore produce 4 plates (worse for iron with the coke requirement and not including the 450kw electricity requirement), so 1 per 3.3 seconds. With 300 kw of coal 1.6 stone furnaces would produce 4 plates in 9 seconds. Each 2 blast furnaces (300kw) can be replaced by 3 stone furances (180kw) with a lower coal cost. Once you get to steel furnaces the smeltery is utterly outclassed unless you are desperate for the added return from the purifying/pelletting, since the speed jumps straight to 2, where the smeltery just goes to 1.25.

If the blast furnaces were electrically powered and the iron recipe didn't need coke it would be far more interesting. Slower production without the need for coal but with lots of electricity cost would be an interesting trade off. By the time you got to electric furnaces you would have the pelletting, so the added resource return could keep it interesting. And then you get the power of modules where having more steps makes the process more powerful since you could have productivity at each step.

I'm really interested about that... I also remarked that with Refining I am ALWAYS low on iron (and, as a logical consequence, on gears). I was hoping that adding Smelting will improved my iron output, but I really wonder if I should really bother after reading that post.

[Arch666Angel]

The new bioprocess is awesome. You can make plastic from raw wood or crushed stone!

With raw wood:
raw-wood → cellulose fiber → methanol gas (+ purified water) → propane gas → plastic

With crushed stone:
cellulose fiber → wood-pellets → carbon dioxide
crushed stone + purified water → mineralized water
mineralized water + carbon dioxide → green algae → cellulose fiber …

See what I did there?

I'm really interested about that... I also remarked that with Refining I am ALWAYS low on iron (and, as a logical consequence, on gears). I was hoping that adding Smelting will improved my iron output, but I really wonder if I should really bother after reading that post.

I already changed some numbers around

[aklesey1]

Thanks guys, I found this useful
Bio Industries mod also has similar ways to create plastic, Bio Industries has a separate resource called simply cellulose

Hence my question arises - is it possible to combine cellulose fibers and the cellulose?
it is quite possible that Arch666Angel was inspired by the some interesting ideas from the Bio Industries mod

P. S. I like Bio industries mod for the coal creating chain, really useful idea with wood coal

What will produce the second building in your bio procesing mod ?

For now we have only brown catalyst, i remember that Refining mod also had 6 additional catalysts (if i remember right) for thermal refining and we needed to produce mineral sludge from slag slurry, yeahh i must say affairs was too much

[QuackerJ4ck]

Since this mod is fantastic with Bob's; can i recommoned a recipe to improve the tree/wood output of Bobs Treehouses by injecting CO2 in it?

[NashBridges2]

Hi, Angel,
Thanks for a fantastic mod.
I have a little question. Your rubber is different, that bob's rubber, so your rubber at this moment is unused. Are you planning to replace "Insulated wire" recipe with your rubber in it?