Personel train transport?

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ks13
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Personel train transport?

Post by ks13 »

Hello. I was wondering if it is possible to have a signal system for trains that would transport players similar to a taxi service : go to a station, call for train, wait for train, set destination, wait to be transported.

So far i succeeded in setting signals so that my train goes from a station to another station based on a mix of signals. The problems arise when i try to send call/destination signals from multiple places. The signals get mixed and trains wait at current stations indefinitely.

I can't think of a way to set up a system that would allow for something like that. But is there such a way?

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by mergele »

You can have a train do a "Waiting station" -> "Pickup station" schedule. Then have "Pickup stations" that are all disabled by default. And then you do some combinator magic to have a constant combinator that activates the adjacent "Pickup station" when it's activation state is activated/deactivated and then disable the train station once the train has arrived again. I'd probably be faster to just carry a train and fuel and plop them down from a hotkey instead of waiting for it to reach you when you need transportation though.

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by DarkShadow44 »

Does a mod like "Shuttle Train" count?

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by ks13 »

mergele wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 01, 2021 5:49 pm
You can have a train do a "Waiting station" -> "Pickup station" schedule. Then have "Pickup stations" that are all disabled by default. And then you do some combinator magic to have a constant combinator that activates the adjacent "Pickup station" when it's activation state is activated/deactivated and then disable the train station once the train has arrived again. I'd probably be faster to just carry a train and fuel and plop them down from a hotkey instead of waiting for it to reach you when you need transportation though.
I don't think this works. The problem i encountered is that the constant combinators are too rigid (which is normal, it's in the name). I would love to be able to power up/down combinators with switches which would add some modularity but it seems impossible.
DarkShadow44 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 01, 2021 6:23 pm
Does a mod like "Shuttle Train" count?
I'm sorry i don't use mods (not that i am against them, just didn't get far enough to begin using them). So i am not aware what that mod does. If it does answer my need, would i be able to activate it in my ongoing save? Or would i need to start anew?

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by Impatient »

In my games I have taxi train stations with several slots for locos. And I have several taxi locos (allthough I mostly would need only one taxi loco), with all the taxi train stations in their schedule . Eg

Example schedule in each taxi locomotive:

Code: Select all

- [TAXI] Mall
- [TAXI] Iron smelting
- [TAXI] Copper mine 27
- [TAXI] Reactor
.
.
.
The wait condition is "Circuit <empty> < 0" for each stop. This way a loco will wait indefinitely, once arrived at a station. The schedule then looks like this:

Example schedule in each taxi locomotive (with waiting condition):

Code: Select all

- [TAXI] Mall
    Circuit <empty> < 0
- [TAXI] Iron smelting
    Circuit <empty> < 0
- [TAXI] Copper mine 27
    Circuit <empty> < 0
- [TAXI] Reactor
    Circuit <empty> < 0
.
.
.
On big maps the schedule can become very crowded though. On my current map, the taxi trains have 35 taxi stations in the schedule and more will be added. And I was told that I am the only one who handles the taxi train problem like this. For me it is perfect though. The only downside I see, is that I have to scroll through a lot of stations in the schedule, to find the one I want to go to (although I of course sort the ones I frequent often to the top of the schedule).

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by Amarula »

Oh I feel your pain! viewtopic.php?f=18&t=72029&hilit=personal

My personal transport has a schedule with a few key stops, like kovarex fuel production for my reactors. The first stop in the list is called 'Come to Mama' and most of the time there is no such station. I have a blueprint that drops that station; when I need a taxi, I place the blueprint, and summon the train. The hardest part is remembering to remove the station before I leave...

Actually the hardest part is remembering to get on the train before it leaves and runs me over...
Luck is not a robust control.

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by astroshak »

I just tend to set up a train that carries a lot of building supplies, and only has one station (the loading station). I just set up a temporary stop for it where I want it to pick me up, and another for where I want it to take me.

It’s simple, easy, and neither adds excess traffic to the rail network nor denies a station it’s supplies.
Last edited by astroshak on Fri Jul 02, 2021 7:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by Laie »

astroshak wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 02, 2021 3:30 pm
I just tend to set up a train that carries a lot of building supplies, and only has one station (the loading station). I just set up a temporary stop for it where I want it to pick me up, and another for where I want it to take me.
Same here, with the only addition that the train has two stops, the second of which is disabled by default. Summoning the train can be achieved by placing a station with the right name, which I find easier than locating the train on the map. One has to remember to remove the station afterwards or set the limit to zero, though.

After my construction material got involuntarily unloaded at one of my temporary stops, I commissioned a dedicated taxi service, a single locomotive without wagons. It sees little use, though: quite often, the construction train is already there when I need a ride (what a coincidence!) and I just hop in.

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by astroshak »

I tend to pick a spot either within a stacker to summon the train or ride it to, or another straight section of track within an outpost. Or a straight section of track towards the end of a line I’m extending. Either way, I avoid calling or riding the train to established stations.

When extending track or building an outpost, I tend to put the train in a spot that it has no path back until I actually build the path back, forcing it to stick around. This is my way of avoiding sending or riding it to an established train stop. I really don’t want to send/ride it to an established stop if that stop is often used by the train network already.

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by mergele »

ks13 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:30 pm
[..]
I don't think this works. The problem i encountered is that the constant combinators are too rigid (which is normal, it's in the name). I would love to be able to power up/down combinators with switches which would add some modularity but it seems impossible.
[..]
The constant combinators have a on/off toggle?

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by ks13 »

mergele wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:40 pm
ks13 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:30 pm
[..]
I don't think this works. The problem i encountered is that the constant combinators are too rigid (which is normal, it's in the name). I would love to be able to power up/down combinators with switches which would add some modularity but it seems impossible.
[..]
The constant combinators have a on/off toggle?
No they don't which is a problem to me. They should.

Ok, so i finally managed to somehow make it work. And it was rather simple to my amazement. The reason i came here was because no matter what i tried i didn't understand why the train didn't follow the conditions i set up...then it hit me : the signal is relayed only to what the wire is connected to. Since i was connecting to the station the signal could only be read at the station. So once i connected a few stations with green wire and sent the signal trough the electric poles it began to work. So before the explanation, here are the requirements i wanted for my taxi trains :
1. If there is no calling signal, wait
2. If there is a signal but wrong station id, go
3. If there is a signal and correct id, wait
4. Only respond if correct train id received
5. If a signal is sent for current station but wrong train, go

These basically set the wait conditions for the train as follows for each station i want to add :
Screenshot 2021-07-03 030403.jpg
Screenshot 2021-07-03 030403.jpg (103.47 KiB) Viewed 742 times
This will stop the train at current station if there is no signal. But if there is and the id is different, it will set off the train to next stop.

As for the signaling, i set up 2 chests, one for the station id, one for the train id.
Screenshot 2021-07-03 030448.jpg
Screenshot 2021-07-03 030448.jpg (219.44 KiB) Viewed 742 times
Screenshot 2021-07-03 030750.jpg
Screenshot 2021-07-03 030750.jpg (29.37 KiB) Viewed 742 times
Screenshot 2021-07-03 030835.jpg
Screenshot 2021-07-03 030835.jpg (34.6 KiB) Viewed 742 times
This will allow me to send the whichever taxi wherever i want (my station or another station based on the id of the station).

This system has a few scaling problems :
- You might have to wait awhile for the train depending on the length of the route
- When playing with others, multiple people can call for the same train
- Still with multiple people but not knowing which train is available

But it should be perfectly fine for solo players.

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by Khagan »

ks13 wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:18 am
mergele wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:40 pm
The constant combinators have a on/off toggle?
No they don't
<panto>Oh yes they do!</panto>
ConstCombinatorSwitch.png
ConstCombinatorSwitch.png (47.43 KiB) Viewed 700 times
Admittedly, it isn't accessible remotely.

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by ks13 »

Khagan wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:57 am
ks13 wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 03, 2021 1:18 am
mergele wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 02, 2021 9:40 pm
The constant combinators have a on/off toggle?
No they don't
<panto>Oh yes they do!</panto>
ConstCombinatorSwitch.png
Admittedly, it isn't accessible remotely.
Sorry i misunderstood what you said. I was thinking in the remote access context.
Which is the whole problem. I would prefer being able to turn them off trough a power switch, and instantly, unlike the decider and the arithmetic combinators. These 2 should be able to be turned off instantly...

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by mmmPI »

ks13 wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:39 pm
Sorry i misunderstood what you said. I was thinking in the remote access context.
Which is the whole problem. I would prefer being able to turn them off trough a power switch, and instantly, unlike the decider and the arithmetic combinators. These 2 should be able to be turned off instantly...

You could use a 2 headed train on an isolated straight piece of track with 2 station, ON and OFF. and order the train remotely to move. but it's quite bulky i admit :).



If you want a "personnal transport" i think the easiest way is to have a train that you use like most people use their car, the car takes you from A to B, then back to A , then to C then to D, and you and the car/train are always relatively close to each other. Just have some large straight piece of rails here and there to park, maybe one with some auto loading capacity near the main base.




The equivalent of a "taxi service" i see however would require many areas like depot where you could park 2 trains. All those would be filled with only 1 train and you place a big icon on the map to locate them.

Whenever you need a taxi, you order a train from such area next to you with temporary stop. ( or you go to such station). Then you order the destination to another of such depot using a temporary stop just before the actual station so that the train is forced to go to it afterward in a one way path.( and you could use a temporary stop to drop you somewhere else on the way before leaving the train join the depot by itself).

Then you make it so that any station that has 2 train, send the first one to the station that has 0 train :). ( or you could try more difficult and make the station that has 1 incoming train send its own train to the station that has 0 parked train ).

The way i would try would be with 2 train stop A and B, next to each other in every "taxi depot". Train would leave A to go to B only when "cargo = 27sateliite", ( which would in practice require a manual intervention : that's how you call a train, you force him to bypass an impossible condition by asking him manually to go to the next step on schedule).

Then when it's at B it means it already have a "forced" schedule by human that will bring him just behind another train in a station that would have the same design.

When this train parks behind the first one ( near the destination's depot) , it should emit "27 satelites" to the train already parked there in A, so that this first train goes from A to B, and in order to force such train to go to the station you've left earlier and replace the train like a train-swap it requires ALL station "B" to be always be enabled, and ALL station "A" to be always be disabled, unless there is no train at all parked in the depot.

Which would occur at this precise moment, when 2 trains are present, the first one leaves, at this moment, you should just temporarily activate the A station, so that the 2nd train fulfill its condition, and then close it immediatly before the train that just left tries to loop back. It would then be forced to go to the other "A" open, the one that is from where you came with the taxi.

You would also need to limit the number of incoming train to station to 1, i think.

I think that could work considering the tools the game offers, that also would'nt require you to wire the whole map with red or green wire. but maybe i'm overlooking some stuff in what i described. Like if you come from a far away place and you immediatly wants to order another taxi to somewhere just next to where you are now, i'm not able to forsee if one train could or not steal the spot of another one, and if it wouldn't mess it all up, those are just thoughts :)

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by ks13 »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 03, 2021 9:16 pm
ks13 wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 03, 2021 12:39 pm
Sorry i misunderstood what you said. I was thinking in the remote access context.
Which is the whole problem. I would prefer being able to turn them off trough a power switch, and instantly, unlike the decider and the arithmetic combinators. These 2 should be able to be turned off instantly...

You could use a 2 headed train on an isolated straight piece of track with 2 station, ON and OFF. and order the train remotely to move. but it's quite bulky i admit :).



If you want a "personnal transport" i think the easiest way is to have a train that you use like most people use their car, the car takes you from A to B, then back to A , then to C then to D, and you and the car/train are always relatively close to each other. Just have some large straight piece of rails here and there to park, maybe one with some auto loading capacity near the main base.


(abridged)
Actually the solution i came up is something similar. I posted it a few posts up. Though no depot yet. Will think about how that would work with my solution.

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by julius1701 »

ks13 wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 01, 2021 3:45 pm
Hello. I was wondering if it is possible to have a signal system for trains that would transport players similar to a taxi service : go to a station, call for train, wait for train, set destination, wait to be transported.

So far i succeeded in setting signals so that my train goes from a station to another station based on a mix of signals. The problems arise when i try to send call/destination signals from multiple places. The signals get mixed and trains wait at current stations indefinitely.

I can't think of a way to set up a system that would allow for something like that. But is there such a way?
If you are willing to use mods i can recommend the following one, sounds like it fulfilles all of your requirements:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/ShuttleTrainRefresh

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by mergele »

I admittedly do not understand your requirements or your current solution.
What is the white dot signal? How many trains are there in the network for this? Are all train stations connected with logic wires or only locally?
Could you walk me step-by-step through one usage of this?

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by ks13 »

mergele wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 04, 2021 2:54 am
I admittedly do not understand your requirements or your current solution.
What is the white dot signal? How many trains are there in the network for this? Are all train stations connected with logic wires or only locally?
Could you walk me step-by-step through one usage of this?
Ok. Hold on to something.

So the purpose of this setup is so i can remotely control specially designated trains. The train can be a shuttle, or a cargo train, or maybe a defensive train. The point is being able to control them from anywhere that is connected to the global logic network.

When i was thinking about it and tinkering with the combinators, i noticed that there is no way to control the trains by their id. The main deterrent is that i can't change or assign the id of the train. It seems to be given automatically by the game. I can read a train's id, but not change it. This will be a problem if i remove/place trains while doing construction. Which would mean i need to be able to somehow assign a different id to a train. Which is why i decided to compose the command from 2 signals : one is an indicator for a train id ("T") and another is the station id ("."). The "T" and the "." signals are just my preference, it can be anything as long as it's taken into account in the waiting conditions in the train logic.

With this, let me first answer the questions :
- The dot signal is chosen arbitrarily. As long as the same signal is used throughout the logic, it doesn't matter which signal is used. In my case it is used as a station id.
- So far i'm thinking about at least 5 different trains with each one having a different purpose.
- All trains should be globally connected to everywhere the base is.

Now for the step by step walkthrough. Let's say i have 3 trains i can control.
- I need to go fast to another part of the base and want to get there fast. A train with nuclear fuel is much faster than any vehicle/armor setup.
- I go to a station. There is the setup you can see in the screenshots
- In the first chest i place any item, but the amount needs to be the same as the id of a known train. So since i always have belts on me, i place 1 belt unit in the chest. This will call the train with id 1. However no train will move if i don't give them a station to go to.
- The second chest is for the station id. In my case, the station i am at has the id 2. So place 2 belt units inside the chest.
- The trains will all receive the signals and evaluate them. But only the train whose logic contains a check for the signal "T" = 1 combined with a check for station id "." = 2 will move until they come to the corresponding station.
- Once the train arrives, i can get inside the train, pick up the items from the chests in order to clear up the signaling
- Then i can open the train menu and click on the station i want to go to.

Does this help you understand better?

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by mmmPI »

ks13 wrote: ↑
Sun Jul 04, 2021 8:02 am
Does this help you understand better?
You tell me :)


1) Every train has a unique number associated with it; written in its schedule. associated with signal T
2) Every station has a unique number associated with it; written in a combinator. assoociated with signal "white dot"
3) You call a train (T) by its number, and order it to move at a station (WhiteDot) via its number.
4) You give order using an amount of belt in chest that become the white dot or the T signal.
5) trains stop are connected across the map for that signal to propagate.
6)upon reaching the called train signal triggers departure to the targeted location.
7) In multiplayer if 2 person call the same train, the train only move to 1 station, the other person has to wait.

stuff i'm left unsure :

8) You need to update the schedule of every train that serve this purpose when you add a new place from where you can call train. (right ?)
9) a train when called will go through all the other station existing on the schedule but only stop and wait where asked. ( what if there is another train idle in a station that block the path of the train whose id is called ?)
10) maybe i got it wrong and you have many trains waiting, each of them being a train with only 1 possible destination ?
11) maybe i goot it wrong and you enable/disable stations somewhat.
11) how are the signals not mixed up if you call trains from multiple places at the same time ? wouldn't the T and white dot signals adds up and mess up with the conditions on trains schedule ?
12) what trains do after they are unsummoned ?

There are always trade-off in those personnal train transport thing, wheter you want something that is fully automated, which will probably require a decent amount of hard-coding ID on station and trains, or something that you can expand very fast where no station need to be modified after the blueprint is used, but would probably require user input when functioning.

I've had base where i used trains as ferry boat, i had like 6 or 7 places i would regularly go, made a train for each place wait at the main base with a condition to go to the other place when a passenger is present, and wait 30 sec and passenger present in order to go back. Those are the most satisfying taxi thing i did myself and used, very simple yet fully automated, just hop in the train and see it move without other input.

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Re: Personel train transport?

Post by Serenity »

Just use Shuttle Train Refresh. It does everything you want and more.

Mods aren't a big deal. You can add and usually remove them during an ongoing game.

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