Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

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Edgar7
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Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

Post by Edgar7 »

I play the game since almost a week now and I want to decide which items I put on my (main) belts.
First I thought I need coal only for smelters. Later I discovered I need it for Plastic and Explosives. This is why I added coal later to my main bus.
Now I ask myself if I will need coal later for another process. If yes, I would likely keep it on the main bus. Otherwise there is no need to keep it.

A similar question came up about Inserters. I needed them to produce green logistic science packs and I need them to produce other inserters. Do I need them later on for anything else?

There is lots of information which items are needed to produce Item X.
But I didn't find any list to see for which productions Item Y are used. This is what I am asking for. Is there a list for which Items i.e. coal or inserters are needed?
I think best would just text or a table (not only graphics) to make it easy to search.

I guess this was already answered somewhere. I searched but I was not able to find it. Thanks.

P.S.: I could of course just follow other users main bus layout. Maybe I will do that but I want to be able to decide myself what I want on that bus (because I need it later on).

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Re: Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

Post by 5thHorseman »

There is no in-game list. I agree there should be one.

There is a pretty good mod named "What is it really used for?" that gives this information:
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/what-is-i ... y-used-for

But if you don't want to use mods (I personally think you should launch a rocket in vanilla before installing ANY mods) I have a suggestion: Give yourself space. Think about what you want to put on your bus. Think how many lines of iron or copper you need, and any other lines of other things (steel and circuits are good, and many do gears too though they're not as critical. And I like a line each of stone and stone brick, and coal. Those are the "obvious" ones. Also remember you will probably want a "fluid bus" of at least 3 if not 4 of the common fluids). Then add those all up and figure out how much room your bus will need. Then DOUBLE THAT ROOM. Then put a margin on either side.

Then hope you don't actually need 3 times the room :)

That goes for pretty much anything. Figure out how much room you need to make green circuits. Then give yourself twice that. Maybe even 3 times. Then throw a gap of 8 or so tiles on all sides just in case.

It's far easier to kill a few biters and grenade a few trees at the start, than it is to pick up and move your entire production line 50 hours later because you ran out of room.
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Re: Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

Post by Nosferatu »

There is no in-game list but you can look it up in the wiki. The information is inside the info frame on the right.
https://wiki.factorio.com/Inserter

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Re: Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

Post by astroshak »

Coal : Explosives (which are used for several things themselves), Plastic, Grenades (thus, Military Science).

Inserters : only used for making other, more advanced Inserters.

Here’s a tip : if you only build machines on one side of a Main Bus, you can widen the bus on the other side.

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Re: Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

Post by Serenity »

Here is another similar mod: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/FNEI


General bus items:
Copper plates
Iron plates
Steel
Green / Red / Blue circuits
Plastic
Coal
Stone / Brick (could be combined in one belt)
Low density structures
Batteries

Possible bus items:
Sulfur (could also be produced locally from gas)
Uranium 238 (if you produce uranium ammo)
Gears (you will sometimes see this and it's good for compression, but science doesn't need as many gears as it used to in past versions)
Rocket fuel / processing units (for rocket + satellite production. Depends on your factory layout. Bussing this can be avoided)

Fluid bus:
Water
Lubricant
Petroleum
Sulfuric acid

Edgar7
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Re: Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

Post by Edgar7 »

Thanks for all your comments.
I will have a look at the mods later. Until now I didn't use any mods and I plan to play at least one game without any mods.

I started the game with the smelters and then the bus starts with the plates. I read the main bus article and I saw a video about it and I know the recommendation of the bus lane sizes and building only on one side.

I build mostly only one one side, that is easy. I put a few things like my first power production on the other side and the Science Reactors, 15 of them in the moment.

Until now I added almost anything to the bus which I produce. And I decided what I produce according to what the science packs need. First I produced what was needed for the red packs, then the green, and so on.

I deliberately used only one lane per anything I produce and always two lanes next to each other and then two spaces.
I did only one lane because I wanted to experience when the i.e. iron bus can't transport any more.

My current status is the following:
Red, green, black, blue science packs produced in enough amounts to run 15 science reactors at the same time. Now I have almost all research finished which uses (only) these packs.
Iron plates on the yellow lane got too slow just now. So now I mass produce red belts and I replaced the iron plate lane with red belts. So far it works.
And now I just run out of iron ore and started a new field which I could still access with belts.
I guess next I have to start with railways because I guess pretty soon I have to go further to get new ore.

My idea was and is to just start and see what happens. I know I will make mistakes and learn from them. And so on.
Even if I would have started with i.e. 4 iron plate lanes something else will come up.
I like it and lets look how far I get before I decide I want to start all over from scratch to make it better. I guess that's the idea. ;)
I also did not use anybody else blueprints up to now because I want to think for myself how to get where I want to get.

Now it's time to look at your suggested mods.
Have a nice day, play Factorio and stay away from Covid

Edgar

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Re: Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

Post by Edgar7 »

To answer my own question I looked at the Wiki, extracted the data, did a little programming, and here is the (until now unfinished) list.

The Excel file includes all items which are used in any recipe. It shows in how many recipes the item is used and for what it is used.

Samples:
- The Accumulator is only used in 1 recipe, it's used to make a Satellite
- Lubricant is used in 4 recipes, it's used to make Electric engine unit, Express splitter, Express transport belt, Express underground belt

In the moment there are still a few things I have to improve.
I.e. in the moment the list shows that Crude oil is only used in the Flamethrower ammo. The reason for this is that Crude oil does not show in any other recipe. I know it shows in the field Consumed By but this is still something I have to extract.

My plan is to add additional information like if an item is needed in mass production i.e. for Science Packs, etc.
I will also add information like when the product is used first (i.e. Iron Plates to make Iron Gear Wheels) and when it is last used. First and last is about the needed Research.

I hope you like this list, let me know which info you think should be added.

And a question for the specialists: Currently I got all the info from the website. I downloaded it and extracted the info from the HTML pages. That works but I am sure there is also a possibility to extract the same info directly from the game maybe by reading some files or with an API. Until now I never did any Mods for any game so I am not familiar how this works. But I am a programmer so I understand the principle. Let me know if you have any ideas.
UsedInRecipes1.xlsx
(13.1 KiB) Downloaded 6 times

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Re: Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

Post by Squelch »

All of the recipes can be queried from within the game via mods, and personally, I prefer to stay within the game.

To add to the list of mods that list what ingredients do what, also try Recipe Book. All three mentioned have different bells and whistles, and it really comes down to your personal preference as to how the information is presented. It would be hard to make a recommendation, and I use all three at various times depending on my needs or mood.

The mods themselves can be opened with any decompression tool (zip files), or they contain links to their source code, if you are indeed interested in how they work? The API documentation is a very good resource too.

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Re: Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

Post by Edgar7 »

Thanks @Squelch
I guess at some time I will look at the source code and the API. It all depends on how much time I want to spend on this. I like it, but sometimes I still have to do my full time job...

Information in game is certainly most important. But for beginners like me it is also interesting to do some strategic planning outside of the game, like what will I put on the main bus, in which order will I put it there and at what stage will it never be used again.

Until now I look only seldom at existing examples or blueprints because I like to figure out myself how to do thing - like if I would be alone stranded on some planet without outside help. ;)

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Re: Which process needs [insert whatever], i.e. coal

Post by Squelch »

Edgar7 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:03 pm
Thanks @Squelch
I guess at some time I will look at the source code and the API. It all depends on how much time I want to spend on this. I like it, but sometimes I still have to do my full time job...
I place myself amongst many that have made that promise to themselves, and also having to admit that I have abjectly failed in that promise. Good luck :lol:
Information in game is certainly most important. But for beginners like me it is also interesting to do some strategic planning outside of the game, like what will I put on the main bus, in which order will I put it there and at what stage will it never be used again.

Until now I look only seldom at existing examples or blueprints because I like to figure out myself how to do thing - like if I would be alone stranded on some planet without outside help. ;)
Absolutely! You will find after a while that you can remember most recipes, and more importantly, what ingredients you will need to make space and provision for. I have many a sheet of squared paper with "plans" that were created out of game. Some of them were actually useful.

The replay value of Factorio is second to none in my opinion. There's always some new layout to try, and efficiencies to make. Some people do this all in one game (save), others like myself, create new games to just do it better this time.

There are mods that add many many more ingredients, machines, and recipes, all with multiple permutations that I'll challenge anyone to remember them all. That's when the ingame recipe helpers come into their own. The ingredients and recipes are taken directly from the game database, and are not always documented in a wiki or somesuch.
Edgar7 wrote:
Sun Sep 13, 2020 11:05 am
And a question for the specialists: Currently I got all the info from the website. I downloaded it and extracted the info from the HTML pages. That works but I am sure there is also a possibility to extract the same info directly from the game maybe by reading some files or with an API. Until now I never did any Mods for any game so I am not familiar how this works. But I am a programmer so I understand the principle. Let me know if you have any ideas.
I've taken a look at your sheet, and it is a good start, and you have already identified where your improvements are needed I believe. I wouldn't count myself as a specialist, merely a died in the wool player, however, you are correct in the information being available in the files, and they are easily read.

The recipes can be found in /data/base/prototypes/recipe directory of the installation root. Here is an an excerpt from the ammunition file - ammo.lua

Code: Select all

data:extend(
{
  {
    type = "recipe",
    name = "uranium-rounds-magazine",
    enabled = false,
    energy_required = 10,
    ingredients =
    {
      {"piercing-rounds-magazine", 1},
      {"uranium-238", 1}
    },
    result = "uranium-rounds-magazine"
  },
  {
    type = "recipe",
    name = "rocket",
    enabled = false,
    energy_required = 8,
    ingredients =
    {
      {"electronic-circuit", 1},
      {"explosives", 1},
      {"iron-plate", 2}
    },
    result = "rocket"
  },
  ...
You should be able to parse these files and export what you need without trouble, and as you might see, the ingredients and results are clearly defined.

Anyway, welcome to the world of Factorio. The rabbit hole goes deep, so good luck!

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