Train fuel load system

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clydeshelton
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Train fuel load system

Post by clydeshelton » Sun Oct 06, 2019 11:36 am

Hello,
I have a train rail system includes 50-60 train. I use electric trains, but speed is lower than nuclear fuel. So I want to use nuclear fuel but it is very hard to provide it for every train station. So, I want to create one fuel load train station, and every train should visit it only when they need fuel. How can i set it up?

For example, every train has 5 fuel slot. I want them to visit fuel station if they have only 1 nuclear fuel. If they have more, do not have to go there, just continue normal loop.

Sorry for my weak English :/

Thanks.

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by disentius » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:14 pm

Hello, and welcome:)
In vanilla, it is not possible because you can not read the train fuel level.
There are mods that help with train management using a depot, where you can refuel the trains centrally. (LTN)

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by clydeshelton » Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:38 pm

disentius wrote:
Sun Oct 06, 2019 12:14 pm
Hello, and welcome:)
In vanilla, it is not possible because you can not read the train fuel level.
There are mods that help with train management using a depot, where you can refuel the trains centrally. (LTN)
Thank you :) so I will continue with electric trains... :/

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by astroshak » Sun Oct 06, 2019 1:00 pm

Choose one : train Pickup locations, or train Drop-Off locations. Personally, I choose drop-offs. This is because I’d rather not provide train refueling at mines, where they pick up ores.

Then simply make a train station at each of the locations selected. Set it up such that a LC train drops off fuel to a chest, and read that chest. Only have that station open if there is less than half the possible fuel in there (or whatever you decide to buffer). Make all of these stations have the same name.

Then decide where the refueling train is going to load its fuel. May as well fuel it at that spot (the one exception to the above), since its going to spend most of its time there anyway. Just give it two stations, the fuel loading and the fuel unloading stations.

End result will be a train carrying one Cargo Wagon’s worth of fuel to every station that you set up. It only requires one additional train station at each delivery or pickup area. At first, the train will be running around (so this station is one of the first I set up when transitioning to trains) but after each station has its load of fuel and is sitting pretty, the refueling train will be sitting in the fuel pickup station waiting for one of the drop off stations to open up. And once it does, off it goes!

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by disentius » Sun Oct 06, 2019 5:44 pm

Agreed, astroshak, that is -probably- the most used vanilla method.
However, the question was: "let trains refuel based on the amount of fuel they have left"
That is not possible in vanilla.
Last edited by disentius on Mon Oct 07, 2019 3:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by Serenity » Sun Oct 06, 2019 6:13 pm

That works because most trains have some central location where they drop off stuff. Your oil refinery or your smelters for example. And those will usually have many train stations where you can deal with a lot of trains as far as refueling is concerned. There are few trains outside such hubs.

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by quyxkh » Mon Oct 07, 2019 1:24 pm

You can do it the other way, a refueling train that runs only when needed. Pick one station on each route that will be the refueling stop, wire it up to a global refueling-control wire to broadcast a "refueling needed" signal if its buffers are low. Ordinary trains don't need the fuel-supply stop on their schedule, they get their fuel at one of their regular stops. The fuel-supply train alternates fuel-supply, 2 seconds inactivity with each refueling stop, the fuel-supply stop disables itself when fueling is needed, and has an exit signal that's red when fueling isn't needed. so the train goes home only when its job's done.

The video's of a test setup I threw together, I was trying to have the fuel stop enable itself also when it needed refueling itself (since the fuel wagon's in front where a locomotive usually is) but I don't think that's necessary. The fueling inserters need to know the refueling train's id so they don't reload the fuel-supply wagon.



edit: I guess a blueprint would help‚ duh:

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by astroshak » Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:20 pm

That’s basically what I was suggesting. Only, you do not have to wire the station to some “refueling needed” signal. Simply have the fuel supply train go to two scheduled stops : fuel pickup, and multiple fuel drop off stations. Turn those fuel drop off stations off when they have enough fuel, and back on when fuel runs low.

The one fuel carrying train will sit in its loading bay until some remote station gets low, and turns on. Then it will rush off to that station, resupply it with your train fuel of choice, then go back to pick up more and wait for the next station to turn on.

That is simpler than running a logistic signal all around your rail tracks. Which is certainly doable with blueprints, but not necessary.

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by quyxkh » Mon Oct 07, 2019 6:01 pm

astroshak wrote:
Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:20 pm
fuel drop off stations […] that is simpler than running a logistic signal
True, but you can't retrofit additional fuel-drop stops into existing designs, this fits into many existing stop setups. I do lean to the wildly-overengineer-everything-then-boil-out-all-the-nonsense style and that design barely has a start on the rendering, instead of the demand signal you could keep the chatter down with a timer on the supply stop.

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by astroshak » Mon Oct 07, 2019 8:23 pm

Sometimes you can, sometimes you cannot. There’s usually room for another train line at a depot somewhere. If not, there may be a less-used line that is long enough for a second station to be added to it to accommodate the infrequent fuel deliveries. Remember, you’re only talking a single LC train, its not exactly a long train you’re worried about.

Lately, when transitioning to a train-based system, I simply start off with the train fuel production plant and then build the fuel drop off as part of the various sub-factory train stations. Then go to mines, smelters, circuits, etc.

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by csduff » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:26 pm

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/FuelTrainStop
Automatic Train Fuel Stop mod. This will do it all for you. One (or multiple, if you like) centrally filled fuel station that trains will go path to when low on fuel.

If combined with LTN, you can use a bit of a hack to use LTN train configuration signals to ensure that different train setups will fuel correctly, as well.

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by clydeshelton » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:59 am

Guys, thank you! Actually csduff's mod is what I need exactly. I do not want to distribute fuel to network, I want to sent trains to fuel loading station if they have low fuel. And I think this mod is doing this. I will try the mod and give feedback.

Thank you again!

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by GrumpyJoe » Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:25 pm

csduff wrote:
Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:26 pm
https://mods.factorio.com/mod/FuelTrainStop


If combined with LTN...
afaik, FTS and LTN do not work together
that might have changed, however if you have LTN anyway, FTS would be kinda pointless, as LTN controlled trains HAVE TO come back to a depot and you could easily refuel there.
Adding a refuel depot to LTN via another mod can work (if they dont conflict), but that would just make for another depot/refuel station setup somewhere else then the LTN depot
Since you cant control where trains run "short" (FTS setup) of fuel, they could be anywhere, close or very far from the LTN depot

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by csduff » Thu Oct 10, 2019 6:45 pm

GrumpyJoe wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 5:25 pm
afaik, FTS and LTN do not work together
that might have changed, however if you have LTN anyway, FTS would be kinda pointless, as LTN controlled trains HAVE TO come back to a depot and you could easily refuel there.
Adding a refuel depot to LTN via another mod can work (if they dont conflict), but that would just make for another depot/refuel station setup somewhere else then the LTN depot
Since you cant control where trains run "short" (FTS setup) of fuel, they could be anywhere, close or very far from the LTN depot
They don't work directly together. You can either just drop in FTS and use it as is if all your trains are the same configuration then you can fuel like that.

If you have dynamic train configurations, you can basically put a FTS stop not connected to a rail anywhere on the map, then put a LTN stop with the exact same name connected to the rail network. With some combinator magic, you can read the configuration of the train and enable/disable inserters to fuel trains accordingly. Trains will still dispatch to the Fuel Depot LTN stop, refuel, then delete the Fuel Depot from its schedule, even though they never actually go to the FTS stop.

If you need capacity, you can repeat these setups any number of times, in any number of locations you want. One FTS stop, especially late game with nuclear fuel and fast inserters, can fuel a train in a matter of single digit seconds, even with Bob's trains (with like 10/12 fuel slots, if memory serves).

The problem with using the LTN depot stops to fuel is that you would still have to have fuel provided at every depot you have, which could be quite a few if you are running a rather large factory. That also means delivering fuel to a whole bunch of locations.

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by GrumpyJoe » Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:41 pm

yeah, but delivering anything to a lot of different locations is kind of the point of LTN, isnt it?
It is also making sure (if setup right, with the tresholds, which is my favorite part of LTN) its not running a train for like 5 fuel rods
That late into the game, where you have alot of depots, you can easily afford to have a buffer of lets say 100 and only refuel that depot once it drops to 5?
You may have more delivery runs in total, spreading out the fuel more, but on a bigger base, your travel time to a FTS depot could get big for alot of trains. and once you start to have more than one of them, you are kind of close to LTN depot numbers again.

All depends on how the base is layed out i guess
there is no best solution, even if we looked at the same save file

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Re: Train fuel load system

Post by csduff » Fri Oct 11, 2019 12:49 pm

GrumpyJoe wrote:
Thu Oct 10, 2019 7:41 pm
yeah, but delivering anything to a lot of different locations is kind of the point of LTN, isnt it?
It is also making sure (if setup right, with the tresholds, which is my favorite part of LTN) its not running a train for like 5 fuel rods
That late into the game, where you have alot of depots, you can easily afford to have a buffer of lets say 100 and only refuel that depot once it drops to 5?
You may have more delivery runs in total, spreading out the fuel more, but on a bigger base, your travel time to a FTS depot could get big for alot of trains. and once you start to have more than one of them, you are kind of close to LTN depot numbers again.

All depends on how the base is layed out i guess
there is no best solution, even if we looked at the same save file
All fair points. I guess I just like the idea of trains specifically going to a fuel station to refuel. Even if just for aesthetics.

And agreed. Like much of Factorio, there is no best solution in this case.

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