Train setup/signaling

Don't know how to use a machine? Looking for efficient setups? Stuck in a mission?
Post Reply
je11693
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm

Train setup/signaling

Post by je11693 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:19 pm

Hi guys, I''m trying to set up a train system and want to ask if I am using the rail signals and chain signals in the correct way. The rule I've being using is to use a chain signal before a section of track crosses another, and a normal signal otherwise. Have I set it up properly in the below images?
Train signals.png
Train signals.png (4.53 MiB) Viewed 320 times
Train signals 2.png
Train signals 2.png (4.07 MiB) Viewed 320 times
Train signals 1.png
Train signals 1.png (3.53 MiB) Viewed 320 times
Train signals 3.png
Train signals 3.png (4.07 MiB) Viewed 320 times
Train signals 4.png
Train signals 4.png (3.93 MiB) Viewed 320 times
Train signals 5.png
Train signals 5.png (3.85 MiB) Viewed 320 times
Train signals 6.png
Train signals 6.png (3.88 MiB) Viewed 320 times

Mr. Tact
Filter Inserter
Filter Inserter
Posts: 332
Joined: Sat Mar 26, 2016 3:37 pm

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by Mr. Tact » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:27 pm

Looks fine to me, are you having a problem with it?
Professional Curmudgeon since 1988.

astroshak
Burner Inserter
Burner Inserter
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu May 10, 2018 9:59 am

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by astroshak » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:32 pm

First Image : replace the Chain Signals in the stacker with Rail Signals. Those are parking spaces, right?
Replace the Rail Signal(s) after the stacker with Chain Signals. I usually put a Rail Signal right after the Train Stop just to ensure that the next train can enter immediately.

Second image : generally looks good, but replace (as mentioned in first image) the Chain Signal at the train Stop with a Rail Signal. Also, at the entrance to the stacker, replace the Chain Signal with a Rail Signal.

At the Station Inlet image, you have a couple of Rail Signals that should be Chain Signals.

Otherwise, they look quite serviceable.

Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by Jap2.0 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:40 pm

In the second image, there should be a chain signal between the tracks so that trains can run on them in parallel (right now they share a block, so only one train can use the whole segment at a time). This isn't currently an issue, as the trains on the far left track have to turn, but if/when you extend that upwards it might become a small problem.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

User avatar
eradicator
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2604
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:03 am

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by eradicator » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:15 pm

astroshak wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:32 pm
First Image : replace the Chain Signals in the stacker with Rail Signals. Those are parking spaces, right?
Possible. But then you should remove the following rail signal completely. (Just the one.)
astroshak wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:32 pm
Replace the Rail Signal(s) after the stacker with Chain Signals.
No. Not if you're optimizing for speed.

There are many speed optimizations that could be done. Tighter signal spacing etcpp. But all of the signals are set right and won't cause any problems. And it doesn't look like those are meant for high-speed traffic.

Example tighter signal spacing:
faster.jpg
faster.jpg (170.07 KiB) Viewed 304 times
On the entrance i'd remove the signal to prevent trains from commiting to the route if there's no space free. But that highly depends on how the rest of the network looks:
nodeadlock.jpg
nodeadlock.jpg (163.51 KiB) Viewed 304 times
Personally i mostly space my signals so the look asthetically pleasing. If you're interested in high-speed signaling i'm sure the search function can find something.

(Yay, your first(?) rocket ;)!)
Author of: Hand Crank Generator, Screenshot Hotkey 2.0
Mod support languages: 日本語, Deutsch, English

je11693
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by je11693 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:20 pm

astroshak wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:32 pm
First Image : replace the Chain Signals in the stacker with Rail Signals. Those are parking spaces, right?
Replace the Rail Signal(s) after the stacker with Chain Signals. I usually put a Rail Signal right after the Train Stop just to ensure that the next train can enter immediately.

Second image : generally looks good, but replace (as mentioned in first image) the Chain Signal at the train Stop with a Rail Signal. Also, at the entrance to the stacker, replace the Chain Signal with a Rail Signal.

At the Station Inlet image, you have a couple of Rail Signals that should be Chain Signals.

Otherwise, they look quite serviceable.
In the first image, yes they are parking spaces. I thought I should have chain signals on the way out of the parking spaces, no? And then a rail signal just after the tracks merge.

In image 2 I have put rail signals just before the stops, are you saying you would remove them and place them after the stops, or keep them but also place additional ones after the stops?

Which image do you mean by "Station Inlet"?

Mr. Tact - I haven't tried it yet as wanted to get it correct before I use it so as not to crash any of the trains into each other. I also still need to complete the unloading section.

je11693
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by je11693 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:38 pm

Jap2.0 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:40 pm
In the second image, there should be a chain signal between the tracks so that trains can run on them in parallel (right now they share a block, so only one train can use the whole segment at a time). This isn't currently an issue, as the trains on the far left track have to turn, but if/when you extend that upwards it might become a small problem.
You mean like this?
Train signals 7.png
Train signals 7.png (3.19 MiB) Viewed 300 times

Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by Jap2.0 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:43 pm

je11693 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:38 pm
Jap2.0 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:40 pm
In the second image, there should be a chain signal between the tracks so that trains can run on them in parallel (right now they share a block, so only one train can use the whole segment at a time). This isn't currently an issue, as the trains on the far left track have to turn, but if/when you extend that upwards it might become a small problem.
You mean like this?
Train signals 7.png
Yes.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

je11693
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by je11693 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:44 pm

eradicator wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:15 pm
astroshak wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:32 pm
First Image : replace the Chain Signals in the stacker with Rail Signals. Those are parking spaces, right?
Possible. But then you should remove the following rail signal completely. (Just the one.)
astroshak wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 6:32 pm
Replace the Rail Signal(s) after the stacker with Chain Signals.
No. Not if you're optimizing for speed.

There are many speed optimizations that could be done. Tighter signal spacing etcpp. But all of the signals are set right and won't cause any problems. And it doesn't look like those are meant for high-speed traffic.

Example tighter signal spacing:
faster.jpg

On the entrance i'd remove the signal to prevent trains from commiting to the route if there's no space free. But that highly depends on how the rest of the network looks:
nodeadlock.jpg

Personally i mostly space my signals so the look asthetically pleasing. If you're interested in high-speed signaling i'm sure the search function can find something.

(Yay, your first(?) rocket ;)!)
How does this look? I moved the chain signals, moved the rail signal, and added a couple of rail signals closer to the loading bays. And yes, I launched my first one earlier today with a satellite :) I am now trying to scale up my iron ore and copper by using train systems. I have logistics bots, but using belts for now.
Train signals 9.png
Train signals 9.png (3.16 MiB) Viewed 296 times
Attachments
Train signals 8.png
Train signals 8.png (3.06 MiB) Viewed 296 times

je11693
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by je11693 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:50 pm

On the entrance i'd remove the signal to prevent trains from commiting to the route if there's no space free. But that highly depends on how the rest of the network looks:
nodeadlock.jpg

Personally i mostly space my signals so the look asthetically pleasing. If you're interested in high-speed signaling i'm sure the search function can find something.

(Yay, your first(?) rocket ;)!)
[/quote]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I changed it but it looks the same to me..
Train signals 10.png
Train signals 10.png (2.54 MiB) Viewed 292 times

User avatar
eradicator
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2604
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:03 am

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by eradicator » Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:03 pm

Generally i meant to say: It all looks fine, don't change it. The pictures where merely ideas not "you have to do this now!!" instructions.
je11693 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:44 pm
How does this look? I moved the chain signals, moved the rail signal, and added a couple of rail signals closer to the loading bays.
Nope, that broke it. You still need a chain signal before the branch.
The extra rail signal before the chain signal is a questionable "speed optimization" though and not really needed.
whatimeant.jpg
whatimeant.jpg (74.71 KiB) Viewed 283 times
je11693 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:50 pm
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I changed it but it looks the same to me..
The difference is where the train waits when both of the lower left bays are already occupied. In my version it waits on the main track, so it's easier to send it somewhere else for debugging, while in your version it'd wait inside the "branch" so to get it "unstuck" you'd have to manually drive it back in reverse mode. If the two bays are never occupied at the same time then there's no difference.
Author of: Hand Crank Generator, Screenshot Hotkey 2.0
Mod support languages: 日本語, Deutsch, English

je11693
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by je11693 » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:04 pm

eradicator wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 8:03 pm
Generally i meant to say: It all looks fine, don't change it. The pictures where merely ideas not "you have to do this now!!" instructions.
je11693 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:44 pm
How does this look? I moved the chain signals, moved the rail signal, and added a couple of rail signals closer to the loading bays.
Nope, that broke it. You still need a chain signal before the branch.
The extra rail signal before the chain signal is a questionable "speed optimization" though and not really needed.
whatimeant.jpg
je11693 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:50 pm
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. I changed it but it looks the same to me..
The difference is where the train waits when both of the lower left bays are already occupied. In my version it waits on the main track, so it's easier to send it somewhere else for debugging, while in your version it'd wait inside the "branch" so to get it "unstuck" you'd have to manually drive it back in reverse mode. If the two bays are never occupied at the same time then there's no difference.
Does this work? I put two chain signals after the parking spaces, and left enough room on the rightmost red section for a full train before the next rail signal so a train could pull up behind the one in the loading bay on the right.
Train signals 11.png
Train signals 11.png (3.27 MiB) Viewed 276 times

User avatar
eradicator
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2604
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:03 am

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by eradicator » Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:40 pm

je11693 wrote:
Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:04 pm
Does this work?
Many things work, including your original solution. As long as you don't have any problems with your own solutions it's probably more fun to use those instead of mine if you don't understand mine yet :). And you're the only one who knows your exact base layout and strategy.
Author of: Hand Crank Generator, Screenshot Hotkey 2.0
Mod support languages: 日本語, Deutsch, English

je11693
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by je11693 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:04 pm

If I have two mining sites and use the same train station name for them, how does a train decide which one to go to? Is there any way to make it so that the trains will choose the station which has the least amount of iron/copper/coal in the chests?

Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by Jap2.0 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:15 pm

je11693 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:04 pm
If I have two mining sites and use the same train station name for them, how does a train decide which one to go to? Is there any way to make it so that the trains will choose the station which has the least amount of iron/copper/coal in the chests?
The train goes to the station nearest to it taking into account penalties for other trains, red signals, and a few other things. The simplest way to make a train go to the station with the most/least resources is to disable those with too few/many, although that's not always the most optimal solution.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

je11693
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by je11693 » Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:50 pm

Jap2.0 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:15 pm
je11693 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:04 pm
If I have two mining sites and use the same train station name for them, how does a train decide which one to go to? Is there any way to make it so that the trains will choose the station which has the least amount of iron/copper/coal in the chests?
The train goes to the station nearest to it taking into account penalties for other trains, red signals, and a few other things. The simplest way to make a train go to the station with the most/least resources is to disable those with too few/many, although that's not always the most optimal solution.
What do you mean by penalties for other trains?

I thought maybe there was a way to specify stations using the circuit network. It would also be useful, for example, when you have multiple sites and all the loading bays at one site are currently being used by trains, to be able to automatically re-route a third train to the second site rather than have it sitting idle whilst the trains in the loading bays fill up.

Jap2.0
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 1737
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2017 12:02 am

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by Jap2.0 » Mon Nov 26, 2018 1:50 am

je11693 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:50 pm
Jap2.0 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:15 pm
je11693 wrote:
Sun Nov 25, 2018 7:04 pm
If I have two mining sites and use the same train station name for them, how does a train decide which one to go to? Is there any way to make it so that the trains will choose the station which has the least amount of iron/copper/coal in the chests?
The train goes to the station nearest to it taking into account penalties for other trains, red signals, and a few other things. The simplest way to make a train go to the station with the most/least resources is to disable those with too few/many, although that's not always the most optimal solution.
What do you mean by penalties for other trains?

I thought maybe there was a way to specify stations using the circuit network. It would also be useful, for example, when you have multiple sites and all the loading bays at one site are currently being used by trains, to be able to automatically re-route a third train to the second site rather than have it sitting idle whilst the trains in the loading bays fill up.
Trains will try to avoid paths with other trains in them.
There are 10 types of people: those who get this joke and those who don't.

User avatar
eradicator
Smart Inserter
Smart Inserter
Posts: 2604
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 9:03 am

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by eradicator » Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:14 pm

If you want to use the same station name on all ore outposts then disabling stations that are in use/not full enough/whatever via circuits. But don't complain when the circuits get too complicated once you start having 10 outposts just for iron. It's also suboptimal for train routing when they suddenly want to turn around in the middle, which is very difficult to prevent with circuits. The easiest option is still to just give each outpost a different name.
Author of: Hand Crank Generator, Screenshot Hotkey 2.0
Mod support languages: 日本語, Deutsch, English

je11693
Long Handed Inserter
Long Handed Inserter
Posts: 89
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:01 pm

Re: Train setup/signaling

Post by je11693 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:08 pm

eradicator wrote:
Mon Nov 26, 2018 8:14 pm
If you want to use the same station name on all ore outposts then disabling stations that are in use/not full enough/whatever via circuits. But don't complain when the circuits get too complicated once you start having 10 outposts just for iron. It's also suboptimal for train routing when they suddenly want to turn around in the middle, which is very difficult to prevent with circuits. The easiest option is still to just give each outpost a different name.
Yeah I think you are right. It's probably easiest to just label them numerically and have one or two trains going back and forth between each outpost.

Post Reply

Return to “Gameplay Help”