[Bob's mods] Right ratios for green houses, furnace, boiler

[mrvn]

Hi,

I recently started playing with Bob's mods. I'm kind of short on Coal on my map so I started using green houses.

Now I'm wondering what the correct ratios are for:

1) green houses vs. furnaces
2) green houses vs. boilers
3) green houses vs. seedling assembler

I don't have fertilizer yet so I'm interested in numbers with and without it. Also for the different furnaces and boilers.

[Xeorm]

Math time: greenhouses to start produce 15 wood at the cost of 10 seedlings, taking 80 seconds. 2 of the wood is used to make more seedlings, so it's 13 wood per 80 seconds, or .1625 per second. A miner mines coal at the rate of .525 per second, and remembering that wood has half the fuel value of coal, you come out to needing ~6.5 greenhouses per coal miner. Should be info on coal miners as far as ratios go, so I'll leave that to you.

It takes 1 second of crafting to produce the 10 seedlings needed for each chunk of wood. Assuming an assembler 1 is used (.5 crafting speed) 1 AM1 will provide for 40 greenhouses. Though I suspect that inserter capacity might be the limiting factor.

[mrvn]

Hmm, the Bob's mod greenhouse here says 60 seconds without fertilizer and 45 seconds with. And I read something about the yield being somewhat random, but that might not apply to Bob's greenhouses.

[BlakeMW]

More maths:

Making seedlings requires 1 wood and makes 1-9 seedlings (average 5)

The basic greenhouse cycle requires 10 seedlings (2 wood) and produces 10 to 20 wood (average 15), it requires 80 seconds, which is 8MJ per cycle (greenhouse = 100kW) or 0.62MJ of electrical energy per net wood created.

Assuming that you are not using the wood to power the greenhouses, then this means you gain 4MJ * 13 / 80s = 650kW of fuel energy, this can be directly compared with the consumption of a furnace or other fuel burning machine, for example if a furnace consumes 180kW then each greenhouse can support 650kW / 180kW = 3.61... furnaces.

If you are using greenhouses to power the greenhouses, then taking into account the 50% ineffeciency of basic boilers, the greenhouses consume 31% of their own wood output, so it can be considered each greenhouse outputs a net fuel-energy profit of 450kW.

The ideal ratio for electricity generation should be 72 greenhouses to 13 basic boilers and 26 basic steam engines. Suffice to say that greenhouses are not a very efficient way to generate electricity.

The advanced greenhouse cycle requires 10 seedlings and produces 10 to 50 wood (avoerage 30), it requires 60 seconds. It is more than twice as productive as basic cycle but does of course require fertilizer.

[Xeorm]

Hmm, the Bob's mod greenhouse here says 60 seconds without fertilizer and 45 seconds with. And I read something about the yield being somewhat random, but that might not apply to Bob's greenhouses.

Not sure about randomness as I've only dabbled with the recipes. Was only reading the recipe, and didn't see any randomness, but that could be the case.

The recipe is 60 seconds, but the initial greenhouse has a crafting speed of .75, and so the actual time taken will be 80 seconds.

[British_Petroleum]

Fyi greenhouses can also be improved with beacons.

[mrvn]

If you are using greenhouses to power the greenhouses, then taking into account the 50% ineffeciency of basic boilers, the greenhouses consume 31% of their own wood output, so it can be considered each greenhouse outputs a net fuel-energy profit of 450kW.

The ideal ratio for electricity generation should be 72 greenhouses to 13 basic boilers and 26 basic steam engines. Suffice to say that greenhouses are not a very efficient way to generate electricity.

That might be true but for one very important point: With greenhouses wood is a renewable resource. It's infinite. Build 72 greenhouses, 13 basic boilers and 26 basic steam engines and you get a set amount of energy forever.

With 26 basic steam engines it seems like you need exactly 8 of them to power the greenhouses. Except you also need some inserters and the seedling assembler, so maybe 9 steam engines should be dedicated to wood production and fueling boilers. With greenhouses running into a brownout is even worse than with coal miners, instant death spiral.

72 greenhouses mean 2 assembler-1, 144 inserter. 13 boilers add another 13 inserter. I use buffer chests per boiler so another 13 inserter. So a total of 72 greenhouses, 2 assembler-1 and 170 inserters, 13 boilers and 26 steam engines. Do 9 steam engines suffice?

For some extra credits: How do the numbers change with solar panels? As in 60% of the time you power the greenhouses with solar panels, 40% with the wood they produce.

[BlakeMW]

Greenhouse power production has many things to not like: high setup time, high setup cost, low energy density, vulnerable to death spirals, high pollution - I haven't calculated if greenhouse power is more polluting than coal but I strongly suspect it is, boilers are super dirty and a large minority of those highly polluting boilers are simply powering the greenhouses - methinks that would be more pollution than the electric miners required to mine coal.

[mrvn]

Greenhouse power production has many things to not like: high setup time, high setup cost, low energy density, vulnerable to death spirals, high pollution - I haven't calculated if greenhouse power is more polluting than coal but I strongly suspect it is, boilers are super dirty and a large minority of those highly polluting boilers are simply powering the greenhouses - methinks that would be more pollution than the electric miners required to mine coal.

If you have coal. I'm playing with RSO and got very little coal and I need that for Carbon. I'm a bit afraid of burning a limited resource when I have an unlimited alternative.

Pollution does seem to be oddly high. Even the greenhouses give of pollution. I would think greenhouses should soak up pollution. Why do they need (so much) power during the day anyway? I would think they could use sunlight at day and only turn on artificial light at night. So power use should increase at night. The opposite of solar panels.

Can one mod that?