Need help doing some math on burning Rocket Fuel in Boilers

[MeduSalem]

Would someone be willing to help me doing the math on following...?

1. Energy required to mine Coal
2. Energy required to turn Coal/Heavy Oil into Oil Products using the Coal liquefication process new to 0.15
3. Energy required to turn crack Heavy Oil to Light Oil
4. Energy required to turn Light Oil/Petroleum Gas into Solid Fuel
5. Energy required to turn Solid Fuel into Rocket Fuel
6. The energy gained when burning all the resulting Rocket Fuel in Boilers

All equipped with Productivity Module 3's and using Speed Module 3-Beaconized Setups where possible.

The setup should obviously use Solid Fuel made from Light Oil over Solid Fuel made from Petroleum Gas... in fact it should only use Solid Fuel made from Petroleum Gas to get the excess Petroleum Gas out of the system to get the entire Oil Processing unstuck.


I would like to know how efficient it hypothetically would become to burn the resulting Rocket Fuel in Boilers/Steam Engines using the resulting productivity module crafting cascade. It should actually become quite interesting because of the many stages using PM3s... just for the sake of curiosity.


I would do the necessary testing and math myself, but currently I'm somewhat locked out of 0.15 currently due some nasty crash bugs that hopefully will be fixed soon...

... I believe that there are surely some people who'd like to know that as well and who are far better doing that kind of stuff than me.

[pieppiep]

For as far as I can see all numbers for mining stuff already existed are the same in 0.15

1. Energy required to mine Coal
https://wiki.factorio.com/Mining says,
(Mining power - Mining hardness) * Mining speed / Mining time = Production rate (in resource/sec)
For electric mining drill mining power is 3 and speed is 0.5
Hardness for coal and uranium is 0.9, time is 2 for coal and 4 for uranium.
Coal: (3-0.9)*0.5/2 = 0.525 coal/sec
Uranium: (3-0.9)*0.5/4 = 0.2625 uranium ore/sec
Energy required for mining is, (1/items each sec) * energy machine
Coal: (1/0.525)*90k = 171.429kJ
Uranium: (1/0.2625)*90k = 342.857kJ

2. Energy required to turn Coal/Heavy Oil into Oil Products using the Coal liquefication process new to 0.15
Coal liquefaction takes a refinary 5 sec to turn 10 coal, 25 heavy oil and 50 water in 35 heavy oil, 15 light oil and 20 petroleum.
Water is free with the offshore pump, so each 5 sec 10 coal adds 10 heavy oil, 15 light oil and 20 petroleum.
With crafting speed 1 and 420kW this costs 5*420k = 2100kJ

3. Energy required to crack Heavy Oil to Light Oil
Chemical plant has crafting speed of 1.25 and power usage 210kW
The cracking turns 40 heavy oil in 30 light oil in 5/1.25 = 4 sec so it takes 4*210k = 840kJ

4. Energy required to crack Light Oil/Petroleum Gas into Solid Fuel
Heavy, light and petroleum to solid is each 3 sec recipe so 3/1.25 = 2.4 sec with 210kW that takes 504kJ
20 heavy oil or 10 light oil or 20 petroleum becomes 1 solid fuel.

5. Energy required to turn Solid Fuel into Rocket Fuel
Assuming assembling machine 3, crafting speed 1.25 and power 210kW.
Recipe is 30 sec, so machine takes 30/1.25 = 24 sec so 24*210k = 5040kJ to turn 10 solid fuel into 1 rocket fuel.

6. The energy gained when burning all the resulting Rocket Fuel in Boilers
Efficiency is 50%, so the 225MJ gives 112.5MJ


Now the entire chain, lets say we mine 1000 coal.
Mining takes 1000*171.429kJ = 171429kJ
Burning this in the boilers gives 1000*4000kJ = 4000000kJ so the profit would be 3828571kJ (almost 4MJ)

Since coal liquefaction takes 10 coal we can do that 100 times.
Profit 1000 heavy oil, 1500 light oil and 2000 petroleum.
Energy cost is 210000kJ, cumulative that's 381429kJ

Just for the numbers, heavy/light/petroleum all to solid fuel.
Gives 1000/20 = 50 heavy to solid, 1500/10 = 150 light to solid and 2000/20 = 100 petroleum to solid.
Total 300 solid fuel for 300*840kJ = 252000kJ, cumulative it's 633429kJ
Netto profit 300*12500kJ - 633429kJ = 3116571kJ (little over 3MJ)

First cracking heavy to light and using petroleum for other stuff.
Heavy to light can be done 1000/40 = 25 times for 25*30 = 750 light oil. Taking 25*840kJ = 21000kJ
1500+750 = 2250 light oil. That's 2250/10 = 225 solid fuel taking 225*504k = 113400kJ
Total energy used is now 381429kJ + 21000kJ + 113400kJ = 515829kJ
Profit is 225*12500kJ - 515829kJ = 2296671kJ and 2000 petroleum. (little over 2MJ)

In 0.15 3 module slots can be used in the oil machines.
This gives +30% products but also -45% speed and +240% energy consumption.
The refinery has a crafting speed 1 so it becomes crafting speed 0.55, so it takes almost 2 times more time.
Required energy is now 210000kJ / 0.55 * 3.4 = 1298182kJ (1.3MJ, over 6 times as much)

Turning the 3 oil types direct into solid fuel now gives 1.2*1.2 = 1.44 times more solid fuel.
Energy required is *1.2 for more products going in, *3.4 for increased energy consumption and /0.55 for the decreased speed.
252000kJ *1.2 *3.4 /0.55 = 1869382kJ

Mining + liquefaction + solid fuel making = 171429kJ + 1298182kJ + 1869382kJ = 3338993kJ (over 3MJ)
Netto 300*12500kJ*1.2*1.2 - 3338993kJ = 2061007kJ (2MJ)

With speed beacons I've made a full productivity 3 smelting around 2.5 times more energy efficient. Oil is a little more difficult, let's guess a factor 2 more efficient.
This would be (a wild guess), 300*12500kJ*1.2*1.2 - 3338993kJ/2 = 3730504kJ

With efficiency modules every where to reduce electric costs by a factor 5.
Netto profit 300*12500kJ - 633429kJ/5 = 3623314kJ (little over 3.5MJ)

Conclusion
Without productivity modules
3828571kJ netto for mining 1000 coal and just burning it.
3116571kJ netto for turning it into heavy/light/petroleum and that direct into solid fuel and then burning it.
2296671kJ + 2000 petroleum netto for turning heavy into light, light into solid fuel and using petroleum somewhere else.
3623314kJ netto with efficiency modules
With productivity modules
2061007kJ netto for turning it into heavy/light/petroleum and that direct into solid fuel and then burning it.
3730504kJ netto for turning it into heavy/light/petroleum and that direct into solid fuel and then burning it with theoretical speed module setup.


P.s. This is after a day hard work, so I hope my errors aren't to big.

[DaveMcW]

Module combos, from best to worst:
1. Mostly efficiency with a few productivity.
2. All efficiency
3. No modules
4. Productivity and/or speed

[MeduSalem]

Thank you a lot for the effort, pieppiep...

... so when looking at the conclusion it still doesn't pay off?



@DaveMcW... yeah seems like so, at least when it comes to producing power.


On a pre 0.15 map I made I am still burning Rocket Fuel... for the reason of having to transport less Solid Fuel to the Boilers. I was willing to live with sacrificing some of the energy for the better compression ratio.

[d4rkpl4y3r]

... so when looking at the conclusion it still doesn't pay off?

I made the math today indepenently and came to the conculusion that you can get over 50% more energy out of your coal when utilizing prod3 + speed3 beacons: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... eneration/

[MeduSalem]

Yeah, I thought it should work from theory...

iceman_1212 made a test setup trying it out and there he gets similar values as your maths say:

viewtopic.php?f=208&t=45545