Can you improve this Automated Storage System?

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Binoculars
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Can you improve this Automated Storage System?

Post by Binoculars »

Hello factorian friend,

The text below was translated on Google Translate, from French to English, my apologies if it is not clear enough.

Can you help me improve this creation ?
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It is an automated storage system that works with two saturation detectors.

Although I'm quite happy with the result, I'm sure it can be further improved, but I have to admit that I haven't figured out how.

My idea is that each chest is filled perfectly equally systematically, whatever the situation.

Two conditions must be applied (if you see others, I am listening to you):

The first is that the stack inserters of the main output line are never activated at the same time as the input stack inserters (to always have the same number of items in each chest). I searched, couldn't find a viable system.

The second would be to pass the same (exact) number of items on the two conveyors which feed the entry boxes.

The last thing I would like to add is to turn the electrical system on or off when no activity is detected.

For those who are wondering why I place items on a single line of the conveyor, I have noticed that the loading is 5% faster this way. Indeed, inserters seem to prefer this.

The constant combiner at the top left is just an On/Off switch. The flow limiter present at the top right only serves to illustrate my creation and allows you to better see how my saturation detector works.
Tertius
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Re: Can you improve this Automated Storage System?

Post by Tertius »

The standard method of evenly filling multiple chests is called "madzuri" according to the user who first showed it.
The concept is to compute the average content of all chests with one combinator and enable inserters whose chest has less than the average and disable inserters whose chest has more than the average.
It's very simple but fully functional. I use this concept all over my base.
It's documented here: https://wiki.factorio.com/Tutorial:Circ ... est_insert

You implemented a buffer that at the same time inserts and extracts items - madzuri will also work if it adds to and extract from some chest at the same time. You have to decide to control either the chest input inserters or the chest output inserters. If you value maximum input speed, control the output inserters, and if you value maximum output speed, control the input inserters.
Binoculars
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Re: Can you improve this Automated Storage System?

Post by Binoculars »

Thank you for your participation.

It seems that I was using the Madzuri method without knowing it.

I don't want to choose between entry and exit. My idea would be to create a perfect mix between the two. I think I will have to find a solution to signal the inserters to only activate when the conveyor is empty.
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Khagan
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Re: Can you improve this Automated Storage System?

Post by Khagan »

Tertius wrote: Sat Jun 01, 2024 11:05 pm The concept is to compute the average content of all chests with one combinator and enable inserters whose chest has less than the average and disable inserters whose chest has more than the average.
Even simpler (and probably faster) is to use the contents of the last chest in the queue as the threshold rather than the average. The last inserter can always be active, and the others are disabled if their chest has more than the last one.
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Re: Can you improve this Automated Storage System?

Post by Tertius »

As far as I see, you want to buffer excess material. A few ideas how this can be accomplished with less wiring in different ways. You don't need that bypass to extract excess items. Just insert everything into the buffer chests and extract at the same time.
1-3 are examples that are not able to fill one output belt to show you need more than 2 stack inserters to fill a blue belt. But there may exist use cases where even just one or two chests are sufficient.

The purely mechanical ones might seem insufficient, but the more chests with still just one input/output belt, the less relevant the fill state of an individual chest becomes. The circuit controlled buffers might seem not totally balanced, but it's sufficient. The small difference between the most full and the most empty chest comes from the averaging. Since there is just one belt for input and one for output, this small difference doesn't have any impact on input or output throughput.
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Bigger buffers than 4 chests, may be 8 (my opinion only) for just a single belt is also a sign of insufficient factory design. Buffers are a means to uncouple producers from consumers. In the end, your factory design has to produce as much as there is consumed. Infinitely large buffers aren't helping here. If your consumers are pausing for some time, you design less producers and buffer their output, but in the long run, your design goal is not to create infinitely large buffers but instead as much producing as you're consuming.
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Re: Can you improve this Automated Storage System?

Post by Binoculars »

I agree with you on the usefulness of a buffer within a factory. In fact, that's not exactly what I want to use it for. I am looking to create an "on-demand store" for a defined and fully configurable production line. I am only at the beginning, and I needed help with this.
My only condition is that the input and output inserters do not activate at the same time. It's difficult to express in any other way, especially since English is not my native language.

I know that my creations on the forum are not always understood, especially the saturation detector. But I think we all have a very distinct way of playing Factorio :)
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