This is a short but delicate question that's been on my mind for years.
How can people play Factorio without the inf mod that turns ores depletion into oil depletion?
As in, instead of having an integer, it's a decreasing yield percentage.
I can't imagine having to move all my mining fields, cables, trains, belts etc. every now and then when the ore patches inevitably run out. That's not fun or joyful at all, you play factorio for other reasons.
So my question is, why? what am I missing?
How can people play without infinite resource mod?
How can people play without infinite resource mod?
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Re: How can people play without infinite resource mod?
In my experience, once you get beyond the few small patches in and near the starting area, ore patches actually running out is a rare event. The starter patches running out is a Good Thing: in the early to mid-game it's an important gameplay driver of your factory's expansion; as the factory grows you probably want that space for other things; and in the infinite game those patches would be too small to be interesting.
For bigger patches further out, I often find that the effective depletion rate is negative: mining productivity is going up faster than the remaining ore is going down. Mining drills on the edges of the patch might deplete the ores under them, but that is more than compensated for by the increased production from the ones in the middle.
Re: How can people play without infinite resource mod?
You don't feel like endlessly chasing more ressources if you play quite short vanilla (1-10) rockets aim game, or if you play an almost vanilla game with just a few small QOL mods or so new to test them and dont plan for sending several rockets. When playing those , ressource depletion is not so much of a concern to me. Most of games i play are longer but i know there are multiplayer servers that reset their map every week. That would explain a lot the "why" to me, as not everyone play 1 game the same amount of hour.
For games that are say around 100 hours or for me, i would try to place my mining drills spaced out from each other so as to maximize the amount of time they will be producing, i would also create dedicated outpost so i would try to look for a far-away hence rich 50M or so iron patch and use it only for the mall, thinking that 50M iron would allow me to use the mall "forever" regarding the planned game lengh. Just so that it is easier to control, to make sure that if i turn science on/off on/off, i wouldn't risk starving my mall. Same for modules. This allow me to only "need to add more outpost" for science only and i don't have to turn science on all the time if i'm just fiddling with cityblock blueprint or other late game thing that doesn't have to involve keeping up with the labs constantly eating lots of ressources. I would barely need to replace mining drill as mostly the number would increase until i consider i have played enough on this map.
For long game, that is 100+ hours or so for me, which is most of my games, i tend to use more mods and seen alternatives to the unlimited ressources mod you describe. Many overhaul mods like bob+angels, krastorio2 , space exploration , exotic industries, or nullius have their own mean to generates some infinite ressources that i have used, sometimes the means to generates endless ressources are even tailored to suit some "seablock"variant, where there is only water on the map and all ressources have to be generated via loops using an infinite ressource like water filtered to mud, separated to traces to ore from which one can make a factory.
There exist several mods that use late game rockets to do some mining, either as a stand-alone mod that add just that, or this system is embedded in exotic industries, so the player can send mining satellites, and instead of space science receive 10000 chunks of a minerals, to break down into ores. I think it's also the way choosen/supported for the industrial revolution mods.
Space exploration use yet another system where you can extract chunks of mineral that are infinite like oil but have their own limitations, of numbers per planet and production and energy cost, and similar to the space mining satelites, you break them down into ores and in both of those it creates additionnal complexity of managing the ratios of ore. The infinite ressources can be used for the bulk of what's needed, so players only need to tap in additionnal ressources to balance the ratio and prevent an excess building up.
There's also players that enjoy the megabase/ scaling challenge that comes from the fact that ressources deplete and automating outposting as much as possible in many different ways IS the late game so they wouldn't not use mods to prevent ressource depletion, that would ruin the challenge and be some sort of heresy, it's not easy to agree on a modpack to play with friends
Re: How can people play without infinite resource mod?
You just persevere, I guess. I find it also tedious busywork that is not fun.space-exe wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 11:19 pmThis is a short but delicate question that's been on my mind for years.
How can people play Factorio without the inf mod that turns ores depletion into oil depletion?
As in, instead of having an integer, it's a decreasing yield percentage.
I can't imagine having to move all my mining fields, cables, trains, belts etc. every now and then when the ore patches inevitably run out. That's not fun or joyful at all, you play factorio for other reasons.
So my question is, why? what am I missing?
But I kinda enjoy the feeling that I am playing "as intended"
Pony/Furfag avatar? Opinion discarded.
Re: How can people play without infinite resource mod?
If you create appropriate blueprints and a supply infrastructure, building a new outpost can be as easy as stamping a blueprint over an ore patch and connect the rail to the main rail system. Resource patches are at max a circle with 30 tiles radius, so you can prepare a blueprint easily that covers each space with mining drills. You have to clear the area from biters if you play with biters, of course. That's the real tedious thing, not building the outpost.
Mining outpost example:
The supply station at the bottom is mainly for automated building. If you bring all material in your inventory, you can as well build the outpost with the personal roboports and leave out all the blueprint roboports and the supply station.
Mining outpost example:
The supply station at the bottom is mainly for automated building. If you bring all material in your inventory, you can as well build the outpost with the personal roboports and leave out all the blueprint roboports and the supply station.
Re: How can people play without infinite resource mod?
I agree. If you go past a single rocket launch or so, then you have three factors going for you that other people already mentioned: 1. greatly increased mining productivity, 2. ore patches get really huge as you move away from your starting point, and 3. blueprinting mines makes it simple. Heck, if you're doing a rail grid, then connecting to your mines is super super easy.
I've got a 3K SPM megabase (vanilla game), and I don't really worry about ore. I really only slap down mines just to get rid of the ore because I don't like to build on top of it! And of course, setting up an ore patch for mining takes me generally less than 10 seconds. (One click for the mining blueprint, one click for the train station blueprints).
Now, if you really want to talk about ore shortages and mining headaches, there's Space Exploration...
I've got a 3K SPM megabase (vanilla game), and I don't really worry about ore. I really only slap down mines just to get rid of the ore because I don't like to build on top of it! And of course, setting up an ore patch for mining takes me generally less than 10 seconds. (One click for the mining blueprint, one click for the train station blueprints).
Now, if you really want to talk about ore shortages and mining headaches, there's Space Exploration...
Re: How can people play without infinite resource mod?
I found space exploration in contrary, be way less demanding on patches than vanilla marathon. I usually ended up making much more refinement than I could resonably use.NineNine wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:24 pmI agree. If you go past a single rocket launch or so, then you have three factors going for you that other people already mentioned: 1. greatly increased mining productivity, 2. ore patches get really huge as you move away from your starting point, and 3. blueprinting mines makes it simple. Heck, if you're doing a rail grid, then connecting to your mines is super super easy.
I've got a 3K SPM megabase (vanilla game), and I don't really worry about ore. I really only slap down mines just to get rid of the ore because I don't like to build on top of it! And of course, setting up an ore patch for mining takes me generally less than 10 seconds. (One click for the mining blueprint, one click for the train station blueprints).
Now, if you really want to talk about ore shortages and mining headaches, there's Space Exploration...
That was certainly one of the strong sides of SE
Pony/Furfag avatar? Opinion discarded.
Re: How can people play without infinite resource mod?
Space exploration intentionally has few ore fields on planets so you can get some ore that way to bootstrap. But it also has the core seams as an infinite source of material. I believe the intention is to setup core mining on different planets and ship materials around rather than source everything locally, at least in the long run. So you basically have an infinite resource mod active.aka13 wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:50 pmI found space exploration in contrary, be way less demanding on patches than vanilla marathon. I usually ended up making much more refinement than I could resonably use.NineNine wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 2:24 pmI agree. If you go past a single rocket launch or so, then you have three factors going for you that other people already mentioned: 1. greatly increased mining productivity, 2. ore patches get really huge as you move away from your starting point, and 3. blueprinting mines makes it simple. Heck, if you're doing a rail grid, then connecting to your mines is super super easy.
I've got a 3K SPM megabase (vanilla game), and I don't really worry about ore. I really only slap down mines just to get rid of the ore because I don't like to build on top of it! And of course, setting up an ore patch for mining takes me generally less than 10 seconds. (One click for the mining blueprint, one click for the train station blueprints).
Now, if you really want to talk about ore shortages and mining headaches, there's Space Exploration...
That was certainly one of the strong sides of SE
Re: How can people play without infinite resource mod?
Are you not automating enough? I find there are many methods that greatly simplify expansion and rebuilding. Bots and trains are the primary ones, but even things like having separate smelting facilities is part of smoothing out the process (means you don't need to rebuild furnace lines just because an ore patch runs out). If it still feels annoying or hard, then do feel free to use mods to help with it. There's no shame in modifying the game to make it more fun for yourself, but limited ores are normally a part of the basic experience.
I've found that mines last long enough that you don't need to worry about it. The only ones that are somewhat small are the starting patches. Ore patches eventually run out, but you should never be in any hurry to replace them, and by the time you've gotten a few more ore fields, you would already have unlocked bots which give you immensely more options to automate everything, including mine building. In fact, continued research make your ore fields last even longer, making it even easier, even as your production and resource needs keep growing.
Also, whenever I've thought about it as a pure design choice, it always seems to me that finite ore patches was the right decision, and the game is better off that way. Factorio isn't supposed to be an idle game, although you can play it like one if you really want to, in which case it does make some sense to have infinite resource mods. Whenever I play mods that allow me to produce free resources out of nowhere, the game is immediately less about resource acquisition, and more just about optimizing builds that produce said resources. The environment plays an important role in creating the core of Factorio's logistical gameplay, namely in where the resources are located. If all sources are infinite, then this interaction with the environment disappears, and there is no longer any need to expand, other than to acquire space, which is already abundant to begin with. Seeking out new terrain is integral to the experience, and I feel like the game strikes a great balance in this regard too.
I've found that mines last long enough that you don't need to worry about it. The only ones that are somewhat small are the starting patches. Ore patches eventually run out, but you should never be in any hurry to replace them, and by the time you've gotten a few more ore fields, you would already have unlocked bots which give you immensely more options to automate everything, including mine building. In fact, continued research make your ore fields last even longer, making it even easier, even as your production and resource needs keep growing.
Also, whenever I've thought about it as a pure design choice, it always seems to me that finite ore patches was the right decision, and the game is better off that way. Factorio isn't supposed to be an idle game, although you can play it like one if you really want to, in which case it does make some sense to have infinite resource mods. Whenever I play mods that allow me to produce free resources out of nowhere, the game is immediately less about resource acquisition, and more just about optimizing builds that produce said resources. The environment plays an important role in creating the core of Factorio's logistical gameplay, namely in where the resources are located. If all sources are infinite, then this interaction with the environment disappears, and there is no longer any need to expand, other than to acquire space, which is already abundant to begin with. Seeking out new terrain is integral to the experience, and I feel like the game strikes a great balance in this regard too.
Re: How can people play without infinite resource mod?
Absolutely, agree on all points. For me the moment where it gets boring is quite long into a specific game. In the first couple hundred hours in a save it is fun and strategic, as you say.
Pony/Furfag avatar? Opinion discarded.