Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

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Midge
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Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Midge »

I don't much like using blueprints off forums and stuff, and I'm trying to fully automate Kovarex Enrichment.

I put up seven centrifuges and two belts around them, one for 238 and the other for 235, the issue I'm facing is that the centrifuge at the start of the conveyor hoards all the 235 so others can't take the oversupply. Is there a simple way for inserters to stop inserting when the minimum requirement for production has been met?

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Stringweasel »

Not a simple way. You'd have to using combinators to count the amount of items the inserter picks up, and disable it when it has enough.

The easy way it just to wait until you have more 235 :)

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Midge »

any alternate ways?

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Stringweasel »

Midge wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:52 am
any alternate ways?
Stringweasel wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:29 am
Not a simple way. You'd have to using combinators to count the amount of items the inserter picks up, and disable it when it has enough.
Additionally, you can also use some smarter tricks with fewer or even zero combinators IIRC, but always using circuit wires.

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by SoShootMe »

Midge wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:51 am
Is there a simple way for inserters to stop inserting when the minimum requirement for production has been met?
I agree with Stringweasel, there is no simple way to avoid buffering U-235 in Kovarex enrichment. Any solution will involve using the circuit network (though there is at least one possible combinator-free, robust design), but there are a number of different approaches which vary in both complexity and capability.

Since it sounds like you don't want the answers as such, I'll just say that on the capability front, you might like to think about:
  • Do you want it to "self-start"? That means you can put down a row of centrifuges and as one starts working, the U-235 it produces will go towards getting the next one going.
  • Do you want to use productivity modules? Not doing so means you know that 41 U-235 will be produced every time, which allows some simplification.
  • Do you want to allow for beacons (and if so, what arrangement)? This obviously constrains layouts for beacons to affect the centrifige(s).
  • Do you want 100% active time? This requires a buffer of 80 U-235 per centrifuge, so that they can immediately start the next cycle. Maybe you want to switch it to work like that once you've got several centrifuges running...
  • What happens if you are not consuming the U-235, if U-238 is not available, or when uranium processing produces U-235? Some designs are not robust in these and similar cases (eg they will get "stuck" or buffer extra U-235), but will be fine as long as you have other things in place to ensure they don't happen.

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Midge »

SoShootMe wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:40 am
Midge wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:51 am
Is there a simple way for inserters to stop inserting when the minimum requirement for production has been met?
I agree with Stringweasel, there is no simple way to avoid buffering U-235 in Kovarex enrichment. Any solution will involve using the circuit network (though there is at least one possible combinator-free, robust design), but there are a number of different approaches which vary in both complexity and capability.

Since it sounds like you don't want the answers as such, I'll just say that on the capability front, you might like to think about:
  • Do you want it to "self-start"? That means you can put down a row of centrifuges and as one starts working, the U-235 it produces will go towards getting the next one going.
  • Do you want to use productivity modules? Not doing so means you know that 41 U-235 will be produced every time, which allows some simplification.
  • Do you want to allow for beacons (and if so, what arrangement)? This obviously constrains layouts for beacons to affect the centrifige(s).
  • Do you want 100% active time? This requires a buffer of 80 U-235 per centrifuge, so that they can immediately start the next cycle. Maybe you want to switch it to work like that once you've got several centrifuges running...
  • What happens if you are not consuming the U-235, if U-238 is not available, or when uranium processing produces U-235? Some designs are not robust in these and similar cases (eg they will get "stuck" or buffer extra U-235), but will be fine as long as you have other things in place to ensure they don't happen.
I want to use productivity modules, I want it to self-start and 238 can't run out as I have mining and refining connected and running

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Midge »

my current process:
Image

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by san »

don't limit yourself just to inserters. (i don't mean combinators)

How did you split U238 and U235 from the mining post?

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Stringweasel »

Midge wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:02 pm
my current process:
Image
That looks like a really good setup :) Once it gets going it should work well!

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Tertius »

A common solution is 1 centrifuge with Kovarex, with 3 stack inserters and a belt running in a half circle around it (half circle, not closed). The half circle starts with the 1st stack inserter, which is taking out the Kovarex products. Next stack inserter is directly next to it and re-inserts whatever was just taken out of the centrifuge. So everything required for the next loop is just taken in again and only overflow U-235 remains on the belt. It's important to either use only stack inserters for both, or use only fast inserters for both, but no mix. Otherwise some Uranium remains on the belt that should be re-inserted.

Then, at an edge, U-238 is filtered to the outer lane and U-235 to the inner lane of the half circle with a filtered splitter.

After that, external U-235 and U-238 from refining centrifuges is added, again filtered to the outer/inner lane. After that, the 3rd stack inserter is placed, which fills the remaining U-235 and U-238 from the refining additions into the centrifuge, if it isn't full yet.

Any surplus U-235 just flows out of the half circle, as well as any U-238.

However, surplus starts to flow out only after 40+80 U-235 has been accumulated within the Kovarex centrifuge. 40 are currently processed and 80 are buffered for processing.

To control and accumulate less within the Kovarex centrifuge, circuitry is required. Since this is a startup issue only, and never again relevant after the process is up and running, it's overkill to invest in such a circuit (in my opinion). To accelerate the initial U-235 requirements, use speed modules and optionally beacons with speed modules. After the process overflows and you get U-235, you can remove the beacons and replace speed modules with prod modules - 1 Kovarex centrifuge with prod modules produces enough U-235 for some 20 reactors, as far as I remember.

For pictures (and blueprints) see this thread: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=100351

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Midge »

san wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:45 pm
don't limit yourself just to inserters. (i don't mean combinators)

How did you split U238 and U235 from the mining post?
Filter inserts and a brading belt

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Midge »

Image

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Midge »

Stringweasel wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:51 pm
Midge wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:02 pm
my current process:
Image
That looks like a really good setup :) Once it gets going it should work well!
yeah at this point I'm just waiting for there be enough 235 so that all buffers get filled and I won't have to do anything

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Tertius »

This seems an excessive amount of kovarex centrifuges. All you need is 1 centrifuge for kovarex enrichment per 20-30 reactors.

The other image you posted indicates that you built power plants around single reactors. Keep in mind that the energy output of reactors is multiplied, if you build them next to each other. This is called "neighbor bonus". A single reactor has 40 MW. Two reactors next to each other don't have 2*40=80 MW, they have 160 MW for the same fuel. 2*40 MW for the reactors themselves, 2*40 MW for the 2 neighbor bonuses because they touch each other. If you build 4 reactors next to each other as a quarter, you get 4*40 for the reactors, and 4*80 MW as neighbor bonus (each touches another reactor with 2 sides), so it's 4*40 + 4*80 = 480 MW. Not just 160 MW for 4 single reactors.

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by san »

Midge wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:57 pm
san wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 12:45 pm
don't limit yourself just to inserters. (i don't mean combinators)

How did you split U238 and U235 from the mining post?
Filter inserts and a brading belt
I never thought of doing it like that, as a splitter has some sorting capabilities for items on the belts (and some other stuff).

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by asheiduk »

A way to reduce the overfilling of the centrifuges without circuit logic was discussed here:

viewtopic.php?p=554977#p554977

It's a way to get Kovarex off the ground but has reduced performance in the long run.

The followup-posts explain the timing.

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by ColonelSandersLite »

Just to point it out -

If you're dead set on X centrifuges and definitely absolutely don't want to use circuits or other logic, one solution would be to feed the centrifuges with a 1 to X balancer and give each centrifuge it's own incoming u-235 line.

It's not how I would go about it, but it's an option.


Edit - Actually, this can seize if you try to do it this way before you have a certain minimum threshold of u-235 so it's probably not what you're looking for.

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Midge »

Tertius wrote: ↑
Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:54 pm
This seems an excessive amount of kovarex centrifuges. All you need is 1 centrifuge for kovarex enrichment per 20-30 reactors.

The other image you posted indicates that you built power plants around single reactors. Keep in mind that the energy output of reactors is multiplied, if you build them next to each other. This is called "neighbor bonus". A single reactor has 40 MW. Two reactors next to each other don't have 2*40=80 MW, they have 160 MW for the same fuel. 2*40 MW for the reactors themselves, 2*40 MW for the 2 neighbor bonuses because they touch each other. If you build 4 reactors next to each other as a quarter, you get 4*40 for the reactors, and 4*80 MW as neighbor bonus (each touches another reactor with 2 sides), so it's 4*40 + 4*80 = 480 MW. Not just 160 MW for 4 single reactors.
yeah I'm aware, it's a choice. the reactors I have are blueprints off the web and I'm holding off on building a bigger reactor til' I'm ready mentally

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Re: Kovarex Enrichment | Inserters

Post by Midge »

yeah this is solved since all the centrifuge's buffers are filled and I already have 1.2k excess of 235

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