Furnace internal buffer

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Chris1983
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Furnace internal buffer

Post by Chris1983 »

Hi, a beginner to this game and really enjoying it. Got a question about the stone furnaces. I’ve got a 48 stone furnace set up and I’ve just done green and red science, so obviously all my plate furnaces are starting to back up and fill the 100 buffer limit. Is there a way to stop this buffer? The reason I ask is as I’m adding more machines etc to my factory I want to know exactly how many plates are on my belt exactly, whereas if I’ve got the furnace buffers releasing plates, it’s giving me a false reading. Does anyone else have the same problem? Many thanks

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DaveMcW
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Re: Furnace internal buffer

Post by DaveMcW »

Mouse over the first furnace, hold down Ctrl+Click, and run down the line. That will quickly empty all the furnaces to give an accurate measurement.

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Re: Furnace internal buffer

Post by Serenity »

I don't think it's really a problem. Yes, they store a large amount of plates and this can give a false impression of the activity in your factory, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. Knowing how many plates are buffered on your belts isn't very useful in practice either. As far as numbers are concerned, generally you calculate the sustained production of your machines and just ignore the buffers. Once you use plates again for the next tiers of science they'll empty.

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Re: Furnace internal buffer

Post by Chris1983 »

DaveMcW wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 4:31 pm
Mouse over the first furnace, hold down Ctrl+Click, and run down the line. That will quickly empty all the furnaces to give an accurate measurement.
Thanks that’s good to know

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Re: Furnace internal buffer

Post by Chris1983 »

Serenity wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 8:08 pm
I don't think it's really a problem. Yes, they store a large amount of plates and this can give a false impression of the activity in your factory, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter. Knowing how many plates are buffered on your belts isn't very useful in practice either. As far as numbers are concerned, generally you calculate the sustained production of your machines and just ignore the buffers. Once you use plates again for the next tiers of science they'll empty.
Yeah I suppose really then it doesn’t matter as long as I just make sure I’ve got enough furnaces making plates. Eventually the buffer will empty, and I’ll soon see if I’m making enough plates as the belts will start to have gaps in it.
Also another question which I’ve tried working out but can’t. How many green circuit assemblers do I need to fill a yellow belt? Thanks

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atomizer
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Re: Furnace internal buffer

Post by atomizer »

Chris1983 wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:07 pm
Also another question which I’ve tried working out but can’t. How many green circuit assemblers do I need to fill a yellow belt? Thanks
All the needed information is in the tooltips, let's find out:
- the recipe says it takes 0.5 seconds, meaning 2 crafts per second with crafting speed 1
- multiplying that by assembler crafting speed (0.5), we get that one assembler can make 1 circuit per second
- yellow belt can carry 15 items per second, so we need 15 assemblers to fill it.

Note that since each lane of the belt separately carries 7.5items/s, you need to put a splitter after the odd assembler to fill the lanes of the belt evenly.
Last edited by atomizer on Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Furnace internal buffer

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Chris1983 wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:07 pm
Also another question which I’ve tried working out but can’t. How many green circuit assemblers do I need to fill a yellow belt? Thanks
A yellow belt has a throughput of 15 items per second: https://wiki.factorio.com/Transport_belt
So one lane has 7.5 items/second throughput
The recipe creates 1 green circuit per 0.5s = 1/0.5 s = 2 items per second
Throughput is number of assembling machines * assembling machine crafting speed * recipe crafting speed
This should be 7.5 items/s to match one lane of a yellow belt.
If you just started, you probably use an assembling machine 1, which has a crafting speed of 0.5.

Everything put together:
number of assembling machines * 0.5 * 2 items / s = 7.5 items/s
or
number of assembling machines = 7.5 (per lane; lane either cannot be completely filled or a bit of overproduction with 8)

If you use an assembling machine 2 with its crafting speed of 0.75, it is:
number of assembling machines * 0.75 * 2 items / s = 7.5 items/s
number of assembling machines = 7.5 / (0.75 * 2)
number of assembling machines = 5 (per lane)

If you want to fill both lanes, you need 7 or 8 resp. 5 machines on both sides, i. e. 14 or 10.

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Re: Furnace internal buffer

Post by Serenity »

Chris1983 wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:07 pm
How many green circuit assemblers do I need to fill a yellow belt? Thanks
There are online calculators for this stuff:

https://factoriolab.github.io/list?z=eJ ... MGAGOJB2w_

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Re: Furnace internal buffer

Post by astroshak »

Honestly, that internal buffer is NOT something to worry about. It is the belt’s throughput that is the concern here. And that yellow belt can only move 15 items/sec.

It takes 48 stone furnaces to turn a full yellow belt of iron/copper ore into a full yellow belt of iron/copper plate. If you have that full belt coming in, and that full belt coming out, you cannot deplete that buffer. If you have that full belt boing in but less than that full belt going out, then the buffer will build until it is full. Only if you have less ore going in than you are using plates can that buffer deplete. And you don’t want to send less than that full belt of ore to the smelting column.

Either do the math to see how much each machine drawing plate is using, OR just measure the flow rate of the belt after the smelting column. If the belt downstream is moving the full 15 items/sec, then you need to add another smelting column to feed more machinery. If you are using less than the 15 plate/sec, then you can safely add more plate consumers until you hit that 15 plate/sec throughput limit on the belt.

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Re: Furnace internal buffer

Post by Chris1983 »

atomizer wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:41 pm
Chris1983 wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:07 pm
Also another question which I’ve tried working out but can’t. How many green circuit assemblers do I need to fill a yellow belt? Thanks
All the needed information is in the tooltips, let's find out:
- the recipe says it takes 0.5 seconds, meaning 2 crafts per second with crafting speed 1
- multiplying that by assembler crafting speed (0.5), we get that one assembler can make 1 circuit per second
- yellow belt can carry 15 items per second, so we need 15 assemblers to fill it.

Note that since each lane of the belt separately carries 7.5items/s, you need to put a splitter after the odd assembler to fill the lanes of the belt evenly.
Many thanks for that, that helps a lot. I just worked out that I would need 72 copper furnaces and 48 iron furnaces. I only have 48 of each and the patches they are on can only fit 30 electric miners. So I take it I can not get anymore off that patch and patch will only supply one yellow belt. Is that right? If I bring in more iron from another patch, I’ve found one with 4m in it, can I just have one red belt coming off the train? Do I have to prime the storage boxes first coming off the train, so that when the train goes away to restock, I have a constant supply of iron?

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Re: Furnace internal buffer

Post by Chris1983 »

Tertius wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:48 pm
Chris1983 wrote:
Sat Mar 19, 2022 9:07 pm
Also another question which I’ve tried working out but can’t. How many green circuit assemblers do I need to fill a yellow belt? Thanks
A yellow belt has a throughput of 15 items per second: https://wiki.factorio.com/Transport_belt
So one lane has 7.5 items/second throughput
The recipe creates 1 green circuit per 0.5s = 1/0.5 s = 2 items per second
Throughput is number of assembling machines * assembling machine crafting speed * recipe crafting speed
This should be 7.5 items/s to match one lane of a yellow belt.
If you just started, you probably use an assembling machine 1, which has a crafting speed of 0.5.

Everything put together:
number of assembling machines * 0.5 * 2 items / s = 7.5 items/s
or
number of assembling machines = 7.5 (per lane; lane either cannot be completely filled or a bit of overproduction with 8)

If you use an assembling machine 2 with its crafting speed of 0.75, it is:
number of assembling machines * 0.75 * 2 items / s = 7.5 items/s
number of assembling machines = 7.5 / (0.75 * 2)
number of assembling machines = 5 (per lane)

If you want to fill both lanes, you need 7 or 8 resp. 5 machines on both sides, i. e. 14 or 10.
That is brilliant many thanks for your help, it’s easier when people explain things. I’ve put a comment above this regarding trains etc on atomonizers reply, if you could give me some advice on that would be good aswell thanks

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