Kovarex in a row anyone?

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mrvn
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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mrvn »

Khagan wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:04 pm
With the deliberate overfilling approach, avoiding overfilling only matters during the startup phase. Pre-Kovarex a large stockpile of surplus U238 will have accumulated, and that stockpile is unlikely to be used up during the startup. So it's a pretty safe bet that the U238 output will be fully backed up while it needs to be. And afterwards, who cares?
That really depends on where that output belt leads. At the start for example I would make that lead to an array of chests to dump all the excess dark uranium to get enough light uranium produced. Later it might go to a train station and then every time a train arrives it all drains away.

If you feed it directly into an assembler making nuclear fuel then I don't expect there to be a problem. Demand is really low there.

With the opposite priorities the overfill and ramp up of production happens sooner so that's how I would set it.

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by Khagan »

mrvn wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:57 pm
Khagan wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:04 pm
Pre-Kovarex a large stockpile of surplus U238 will have accumulated, and that stockpile is unlikely to be used up during the startup. So it's a pretty safe bet that the U238 output will be fully backed up while it needs to be.
That really depends on where that output belt leads. At the start for example I would make that lead to an array of chests to dump all the excess dark uranium to get enough light uranium produced. Later it might go to a train station and then every time a train arrives it all drains away.
I agree with this right up until 'it all drains away'. Which 'all'? During the ramp-up it's indeed likely that all or almost all of the stored U235 is loaded onto the uranium delivery train each time it comes home. But you won't be draining all the U238 until you've worked through the contents of that array of chests.

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mrvn »

Khagan wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:28 am
mrvn wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:57 pm
Khagan wrote: ↑
Wed Oct 27, 2021 9:04 pm
Pre-Kovarex a large stockpile of surplus U238 will have accumulated, and that stockpile is unlikely to be used up during the startup. So it's a pretty safe bet that the U238 output will be fully backed up while it needs to be.
That really depends on where that output belt leads. At the start for example I would make that lead to an array of chests to dump all the excess dark uranium to get enough light uranium produced. Later it might go to a train station and then every time a train arrives it all drains away.
I agree with this right up until 'it all drains away'. Which 'all'? During the ramp-up it's indeed likely that all or almost all of the stored U235 is loaded onto the uranium delivery train each time it comes home. But you won't be draining all the U238 until you've worked through the contents of that array of chests.
With "all" I mean the few dark uranium on the belt loop.

At the start there is no U238 and no U235. Then the first set of centrifuges start and produce some. The second set of centrifuges pick up a bit of U238 and the rest just goes into the chest. It will never back up or you didn't use enough chests. You have to store all that U238 so more U235 can be produced. Prevents the nice no-overfill magic from working some of the time.

Once the covarex process runs you are right. When you switch over to emptying the chests you probably won't get them empty for a long time at least. It's a bunch of train cars full to get the first 40 light uranium. I hear some people put it in a wooden chest and shoot it.

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by quyxkh »

Just for reference, I switched my bp to keep separate in and out counts, to handle a real ore-processing feed with random the 0.7% U-235.

For the S3'd version, four cs6 ore-processing centrifuges and three cs8 kovarex centrifuges
  • 31738, 32994, 38505, 34122 ticks to get their first '235 out after gettng their 40th '235 in, so the worst was 10m41s.
  • Running the build for an hour produced at least 18.9/m, I saw up to 19.4 but that's just Getting Real Lucky with the ore processing. 18.9*60 is 1134/hr and up on average when you keep the minimal buffering.
  • Buffering 40 more '235 after the line started bearing fruit (by cutting and replacing the feedback wires on the buffer-count accumulators) goosed the output to 24.7/m and up, 1482/hr.
With the S1'd version, 4x cs3 ore processing feeding 3x cs3.8 kovarex,
  • 59225, 57596, 44678(!), 50486, so the worst was 16m27
  • The minimal-buffering output stabilized at at least 10.2/m, 612/hr (I saw as high as 630)
  • With full buffering the output stabilized at at least 11.9/m, 714/hr (not much upside)
The S3'd real-ore-processing version I used:

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mmmPI »

mrvn wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:42 am
Once the covarex process runs you are right. When you switch over to emptying the chests you probably won't get them empty for a long time at least. It's a bunch of train cars full to get the first 40 light uranium. I hear some people put it in a wooden chest and shoot it.
The '"dark" uranium necessary to get the 40 first "light" uranium fits into 3 steel chest.

Do not trust all your hear x)

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by ColonelSandersLite »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:24 pm
mrvn wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:42 am
Once the covarex process runs you are right. When you switch over to emptying the chests you probably won't get them empty for a long time at least. It's a bunch of train cars full to get the first 40 light uranium. I hear some people put it in a wooden chest and shoot it.
The '"dark" uranium necessary to get the 40 first "light" uranium fits into 3 steel chest.

Do not trust all your hear x)
2 Chests actually.

4800 * 0.007 = 33.6

Of course there's some RNG there but you would have to be really unlucky to have to go to 3 chests.

edit -
Funny thing, was curious and actually tried a test setup in game to see how it works out and just to make sure my math isn't off base. Got 40 u-235 with 4774 u-238. Just about exactly 1 chest. Dunno how lucky that is. Is it that factorio's RNG isn't that accurate over that kind of volume or was it just dumb luck? Or is it proof that the universe is slightly younger than we have been lead to believe? I dunno. The truth is out there.

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mmmPI »

ColonelSandersLite wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:59 pm
mmmPI wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:24 pm

The '"dark" uranium necessary to get the 40 first "light" uranium fits into 3 steel chest.

Do not trust all your hear x)
2 Chests actually.

4800 * 0.007 = 33.6

Of course there's some RNG there but you would have to be really unlucky to have to go to 3 chests.
That's what i said ! it does fit into 3 chest ! 3>2 ! (super-dishonnest-face-emote) :twisted:

and also do not trust all you hear was correct thank you for illustrating it x) , better trust the person who show the math !

That's from the wiki : https://wiki.factorio.com/Uranium_processing
Kovarex-prob-chart.png
Kovarex-prob-chart.png (22.75 KiB) Viewed 260 times

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

ColonelSandersLite wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:59 pm
Is it that factorio's RNG isn't that accurate over that kind of volume or was it just dumb luck? Or is it proof that the universe is slightly younger than we have been lead to believe? I dunno. The truth is out there.
Someone may have paid for the wrong price tier....
https://xkcd.com/2666/

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mmmPI »

ColonelSandersLite wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:59 pm
Funny thing, was curious and actually tried a test setup in game to see how it works out and just to make sure my math isn't off base. Got 40 u-235 with 4774 u-238. Just about exactly 1 chest. Dunno how lucky that is. Is it that factorio's RNG isn't that accurate over that kind of volume or was it just dumb luck? Or is it proof that the universe is slightly younger than we have been lead to believe? I dunno. The truth is out there.
that's even better than showing the math ! doing the experiment yourself hats off sir.

BUT in order to apply what you prooved earlier, i cannot just trust your words and would require as the words of wisdom from the past taught us : PIC OR DIDN'T HAPPEN :lol:

( i was meaning thank you for your precision all along in case it wasn't clear )

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mrvn »

ColonelSandersLite wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:59 pm
mmmPI wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:24 pm
mrvn wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:42 am
Once the covarex process runs you are right. When you switch over to emptying the chests you probably won't get them empty for a long time at least. It's a bunch of train cars full to get the first 40 light uranium. I hear some people put it in a wooden chest and shoot it.
The '"dark" uranium necessary to get the 40 first "light" uranium fits into 3 steel chest.

Do not trust all your hear x)
2 Chests actually.

4800 * 0.007 = 33.6

Of course there's some RNG there but you would have to be really unlucky to have to go to 3 chests.

edit -
Funny thing, was curious and actually tried a test setup in game to see how it works out and just to make sure my math isn't off base. Got 40 u-235 with 4774 u-238. Just about exactly 1 chest. Dunno how lucky that is. Is it that factorio's RNG isn't that accurate over that kind of volume or was it just dumb luck? Or is it proof that the universe is slightly younger than we have been lead to believe? I dunno. The truth is out there.
Yes, mmmPI, that is good advice. Do not trust all you write. You say 3 steel chests? Steel chests are bigger than train cars so I think a "bunch" of train cars describes it just well.

Even the one chest ColonelSandersLite got is more than one cargo wagon and that does seem lucky. And he stopped right at 40, which you wouldn't normally do. You would just let it keep running and fill more chests. So what if you end up with 50 or 60 or 100 U-235 in the end. The more the faster you can start the reactor.

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mmmPI »

mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:25 pm
ColonelSandersLite wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:59 pm
mmmPI wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 1:24 pm
mrvn wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:42 am
Once the covarex process runs you are right. When you switch over to emptying the chests you probably won't get them empty for a long time at least. It's a bunch of train cars full to get the first 40 light uranium. I hear some people put it in a wooden chest and shoot it.
The '"dark" uranium necessary to get the 40 first "light" uranium fits into 3 steel chest.

Do not trust all your hear x)
2 Chests actually.

4800 * 0.007 = 33.6

Of course there's some RNG there but you would have to be really unlucky to have to go to 3 chests.

edit -
Funny thing, was curious and actually tried a test setup in game to see how it works out and just to make sure my math isn't off base. Got 40 u-235 with 4774 u-238. Just about exactly 1 chest. Dunno how lucky that is. Is it that factorio's RNG isn't that accurate over that kind of volume or was it just dumb luck? Or is it proof that the universe is slightly younger than we have been lead to believe? I dunno. The truth is out there.
Yes, mmmPI, that is good advice. Do not trust all you write. You say 3 steel chests? Steel chests are bigger than train cars so I think a "bunch" of train cars describes it just well.

Even the one chest ColonelSandersLite got is more than one cargo wagon and that does seem lucky. And he stopped right at 40, which you wouldn't normally do. You would just let it keep running and fill more chests. So what if you end up with 50 or 60 or 100 U-235 in the end. The more the faster you can start the reactor.
Are you not able to understand math ? 2 cargo have a capacity of 80 stack or 8000 dark uranium, which will give you 97 % chance to have the 40 "light" uranium ?

A bunch is 2 ? 2 is a bunch ? sorry you are so dishonnest you can't admit mistake.

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mmmPI »

Let's explain the graph because obvisouly it's not clear :
mathtuto.png
mathtuto.png (26.32 KiB) Viewed 219 times

How many wagons do you think you need to store all that bad uranium before you get the 40 light uranium ?

1 ? few percentage, lucky !
2 ? yeah, 97% chance or so
3 ? MWhhahaha


a bunch ? Man no this is a mistake, you do not need a bunch of wagon to store the "bad" uranium.

mrvn wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:42 am
Once the covarex process runs you are right. When you switch over to emptying the chests you probably won't get them empty for a long time at least. It's a bunch of train cars full to get the first 40 light uranium. I hear some people put it in a wooden chest and shoot it.
mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 7:25 pm
You say 3 steel chests? Steel chests are bigger than train cars so I think a "bunch" of train cars describes it just well.
And he stopped right at 40,which you wouldn't normally do. You would just let it keep running and fill more chests. So what if you end up with 50 or 60 or 100 U-235 in the end. The more the faster you can start the reactor.
You are changing your words but they are still wrong.

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mrvn »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:06 pm
A bunch is 2 ? 2 is a bunch ? sorry you are so dishonnest you can't admit mistake.
Yes, 2 is a bunch. Most certainly 4 are which is what you likely need for the 3 steel chests YOU quoted.

Now please put me on ignore and stop quoting me. The notification every time you take me out of context are annoying.

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mmmPI »

I'm just saying you do not need a bunch of train car to stockpile the bad uranium, you only need 2 wagon !
bunch.png
bunch.png (17.6 KiB) Viewed 208 times
2 is a pair, a small , number, you are giving wrong advice and representation , i would ignore you if you weren't, but it is misleading for something in the gameplay help section.
mrvn wrote: ↑
Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:42 am
Once the covarex process runs you are right. When you switch over to emptying the chests you probably won't get them empty for a long time at least. It's a bunch of train cars full to get the first 40 light uranium. I hear some people put it in a wooden chest and shoot it.
No you don't need a bunch of car to store the uranium you most likely forgot that there was a x10 reduction during the refinment process, it was also pointed out to you on other thread that the "dark" uranium could be use for ammo, so you definitly do not need a bunch of wagon to stockpile the "bad uranium" before starting the kovarex process, not even couting those that will sit on belt, given the probability, the only 2 train car wagon that you need won't even be filled in most cases.
Last edited by mmmPI on Fri Sep 09, 2022 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by Koub »

mmmPI wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:16 pm
mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 09, 2022 8:51 pm
[Moderator-me here] Would you please, both of you, stop ruining every single thread by endless polemics ? I think everyone here got it : both of you can't stand each other. Well ignore each other and that's all. Or you can have a sword duel, I don't care. Just please stop bothering the other forum users with your endless fight. I can also help with a one-week ban for both if you feel it's necessary.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Kovarex in a row anyone?

Post by mmmPI »

I may have been over zealous in the correction of repeated mistakes on the thread and as such counter productive if it's considered ruined, that was never the intention. I'm sorry

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