Difference in Recipe/Technology Difficulty?

[nickla23]

In the advanced tab of the map generator we have the 3 settings: Recipe Difficulty, Technology Difficulty and Technology Price multiplier. The multiplier works as expected. However, toggling recipe and tech difficulty from normal to expensive doesn't seem to have an impact. All science packs cost the same, take the same length of time, and produce the same number. Same for all of the recipe's I spot checked. What is the intent of these two settings? Am I missing something?

[Neemys]

Expensive recipe change recipe like electronic circuit that require 10 copper cable instead of 3. So 5 assembling machine of copper cable per assembling machine of circuit, they are surely other recipe changed, but I haven't gone far.

[nickla23]

Thanks,

Looks like the circuits and steel increased. Most other stuff is the same, and still don't see any difference in Science, but thanks for pointing out the recipe.


Steel 5->10 Iron
Electronic Circuit 1->2 Iron 3->10 Copper Wire
Advanced Circuit 2->4 plastic 4->8 Copper Wire
Processing Unit 5->10 Sulfuric Acid

[GodricSeer]

I'm not at a computer with factorio but it would be worth checking the pack type requirements for the recipes. Perhaps the technology modifier does things such as add a green science requirement to a technology that was only red before.

[werelord]

I only played around for a bit last night with Expensive tech & recipes, and tech multiplier of x4..

I only got up to green circuits, but as mentioned it changed the ratios.. I didn't see any addition of items to a recipe, just the ratios (10 copper wire + 2 iron fro green circuits)..

I could have sworn that red science packs now required 4 gears + 1 copper, rather than 1 gear + 1 copper..

Having 4x multiplier on tech seemed to increase the # of science packs to research said tech; for example, the base Automation went from 10 red science to 40 red science to research..

[Neemys]

Thanks,

Looks like the circuits and steel increased. Most other stuff is the same, and still don't see any difference in Science, but thanks for pointing out the recipe.


Steel 5->10 Iron
Electronic Circuit 1->2 Iron 3->10 Copper Wire
Advanced Circuit 2->4 plastic 4->8 Copper Wire
Processing Unit 5->10 Sulfuric Acid

Gear 2->4 iron

[DerGraue]

So Recipy Difficulty changes cost for gear, steel and circuits, as far as I can tell, maybe something more that I overlooked.

But I can't figure out what changes with Technology Difficulty.

[Neemys]

Haven't found anything, it's maybe a setting for mods so they can change their own recipe if they detect you want harder technologies, or even add more technologies.

[orzelek]

I checked both in game and in data files and didn't find any effects/references to technology difficulty.

[Neemys]

Here all recipe change I was able to find looking at the game file :

Express transport belt : 10 -> 20 gear
Assembling machine 2 : 9->20 iron plate, 3 -> 5 electronic circuit, 5->10 gear
Tank : 32 -> 64 engine unit, 50 -> 100 steel plate, 15->30 gear, 10->20 advanced circuit
Advanced circuit : 2->4 plastic 4->8 copper wire
Processing unit : 5->10 sulfuric acid
Explosives : 1->2 sulfur, 1->2 coal
Battery : 20->40 sulfuric acid
low density structure : 5->10 copper plate, 5-> plastic bar
Steel : 5->10 iron plate
Steam engine : 8->10 gear, 10->50 iron plate
Gear : 2->4 iron plate
Electronic circuit 1->2 Iron 3->10 copper wire
Electric mining drill : 3->5 electronic circuit, 5->10 gear, 10->20 iron plate
Burner mining dril : 3 ->6 gear, 1->2 stone furnace, 3->6 iron plate
Pipe : 1->2 iron plate
SMG : 10->15 gear, 5->20 copper plate, 10->30 iron plate
Cannon shell : 2->4 steel plate, 2->4 plastic
Explosive cannon shell : 2->4 steel plate, 2->4 plastic

I checked both in game and in data files and didn't find any effects/references to technology difficulty.

Sad they didn't implement it, it could have made a better marathon...

[iceman_1212]

The increased cost of gears and steel are particularly impactful given that (1) gears and steel are a common ingredient in new science packs and (2) there is relatively limited savings from productivity modules (as compared to circuits, where we see a dramatic reduction of ore requirement from having multiple steps with 40% productivity gains at many of those steps). Atm, I'm experimenting with making gears and steel on-site (i.e., at the iron mine), mostly as a way to simply logistics (and save UPS) as the base grows.

[DaStim]

Quick question:

Can i edit an existing save game with normal recepies to expensive recepies? Want to go for a marathon run

[Neemys]

Quick question:

Can i edit an existing save game with normal recepies to expensive recepies? Want to go for a marathon run

The followings command disable achievement, if you want them not to disable achievement use a mod to execute them (but you lose steam achievement anyway).

Yes you can, write the following command to change from normal to expensive recipes :

Code: Select all

/c game.difficulty_settings.recipe_difficulty = 1

All recipe twill be automatically reload so it is effective imediatly.

Write the following command to change from normal to expensive technologies (not used by vanilla game but if you have a mod that set custom technologie tree for expensive tree) :

Code: Select all

/c game.difficulty_settings.technology_difficulty = 1

To change technology price multiplier use the following command, replace '1' with the number you want, it multiply all cost in bottle in all technology by the number entered.

Code: Select all

/c game.difficulty_settings.technology_price_multiplier = 1

But as some recipe change, you will have to modify your base accordingly. if you increment the technology multiplier, you will need to make everything bigger.

[garath]

I am extremely surprised the Marathon mode doesn't alter the Enemy settings. With everything costing more, I would expect development to be slower--which would make defending against enemies that much harder, right?

[Nemoricus]

I am extremely surprised the Marathon mode doesn't alter the Enemy settings. With everything costing more, I would expect development to be slower--which would make defending against enemies that much harder, right?

Try Death World instead. It has the expensive technology settings along with a high amount of enemies.

[Ranakastrasz]

Where is this data stored in the data files?
If you wanted to make a mod interface with this logic, how would you do so?
Edit: Found it

Code: Select all

{
    type = "recipe",
    name = "electronic-circuit",
    normal =
    {
      ingredients =
      {
        {"iron-plate", 1},
        {"copper-cable", 3}
      },
      result = "electronic-circuit",
      requester_paste_multiplier = 50
    },
    expensive =
    {
      ingredients =
      {
        {"iron-plate", 2},
        {"copper-cable", 10}
      },
      result = "electronic-circuit",
      requester_paste_multiplier = 50
    },
  },

[Ifandbut]

What about a way to put a value less than 1 in the Technology price multiplier? I'd like a more casual game with faster technology instead of sitting for 10 min waiting on basic techs to get researched.

[Yogzototh]

What about a way to put a value less than 1 in the Technology price multiplier? I'd like a more casual game with faster technology instead of sitting for 10 min waiting on basic techs to get researched.

I agree. Non-integer values would be great either for a blitz mode with like 0.5 or 0.2 modifier ( i bet there is demand for that in PvP).
Or you could go for like 1.5 modifier if for some reason you want slower science, feel like 2 is too much. 1.5 is still 50% higher than base amount, so not completely insignificant.

[5thHorseman]

What about a way to put a value less than 1 in the Technology price multiplier? I'd like a more casual game with faster technology instead of sitting for 10 min waiting on basic techs to get researched.

Have you tried it? I have not, but it's possible that:

Code: Select all

/c game.difficulty_settings.technology_price_multiplier = 0.5

would work.

[BlakeMW]

I am extremely surprised the Marathon mode doesn't alter the Enemy settings. With everything costing more, I would expect development to be slower--which would make defending against enemies that much harder, right?

I haven't played a Marathon but I have played a Deathworld which has 4x the time-based evolution. I expect Marathon is a good deal harder than standard in terms of biters, maybe only a little easier than Deathworld. But even Deathworld isn't that hard with the new combat system - even though the evolution is extremely quick relative to technology it's still perfectly possible to beat off Big Biters with just AP Ammo and a few bullet/turret upgrades, and on Deathworld I could've unlocked laser turrets before big's evolved (I didn't, but that's because I invested in Personal Shield instead which costs about the same to research as laser turrets), flame turret is also easy to acquire long before big's evolve and will make short work of them. On Marathon it should be no problem unlocking flame, laser turret, personal shield and the Tank before bigs evolve.

Also bear in mind the expensive tech makes defenses relatively cheap. For the cost of a defensive tech you can get shitloads of turrets firing AP ammo, basically quantity over quality. This actually goes along well with the general theme of Marathon/Deathworld requiring much greater quantities of machines to accomplish tasks. The cost of factory defense is negligible compared with the cost of a research program.

If you just don't want to bother with biters much, you'd probably start with Rail World and then add expensive recipes and 4x tech multiplier.