Train Signals - How to use them for single tracks?

[Molay]

Hello there,

I've been playing this game for some 20 hours now, and the needs for additional trains arises. However, I ran into trouble implementing it - although only few crashes while experimenting, I usually ended up with trains at a perpetual standstill.

So, as I started my first train some days ago, it had a single destination. It seemed easy and logical to put two locomotives on it and have it go back and forth - no need for additional tracks, no need for spacing out turns, all very neat and compact. Served me well, and was probably faster than having a one-directional train.

Now I need to add a second train. This train will use large segments of the previous track, while going a bit further and branching off after a couple stops. Since the trains are likely to eventually use the same track at the same time (and in inverse direction!), I tried setting up alternative routes. So I built a second track of rails next to every station, putting signals before and after it. The idea was that, if a train was in the station, and the incoming train didn't need to go to the station (likely, since they use the same tracks, they only enter a station in one direction) he would take the newly placed track and continue on it's way.

Now, that absolutely doesn't work. I have no idea, really, what I'm missing. Even if there is a perfectly free path towards the base, the train won't take the alternative. Instead he waits for the station track to clear. Which is problematic, since the train from the station usually wants to go where the waiting train is. How can I tell trains to take an alternative route, if the current route is occupied?

To illustrate:
Next Station -------- Station Stop (with alternative route bypassing the stop itself) ---------- Terminal

Train A go from the terminal to the Station Stop, fills up resources, continues to Next station, fills up ressources, then heads back to the terminal.
Train B goes from the Terminal to Next Station. Then train B tries to go to Next Station. At this point, if train A comes back while train B is in the Station stop, both trains will wait another out.
Train A _should_ take the Station alternative track to bypass station, but he won't, and I don't know how to make that happen.
On it's way back, train A does not have the stop as a route anyways, but it's probably shorter to go by the stop than go around? (4 extra pieces of curved rail longer than the station track)

Any help is much appreciated, as this is a major dilemma for me, I've been trying this for over 1 hour now, which is bad news, as oil ran out in the meantime and I need it to fuel my boilers and make batteries. The longer I test around, the worse off I'll be I fear. I ran into a total energy outage last night, due to all boilers shutting down. Factories only came back online when the sun came out, and then at about 40% efficiency. Winter is indeed coming...

Thanks.
Molay

[ssilk]

Have you read that: https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... ork/Signal
https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... ock_signal
?

If that doesn't bring you forward you can provide a pic/pictures of your setup or a savegame and we can tell you, what's wrong.

[Molay]

Hello! Thanks for the reply.

Here's a picture:



I put the train from the right on the tracks. The train from the left was on it's way off to the left side. As he came back, he went for the same tracks I parked the new train on. He didn't try to go around, using the upper way (which seems to be clear to me, as lights are green?).
What am I missing?

I'm not sure where to find the savefile, if you need this one. I'll have a look at it if you need it!

Thanks

[ssilk]

Well, you really should have read the links I posted above.

But in long form: before a train starts driving, it looks for a path to the target. And if there are many paths, it chooses the shortest. The trains don't communicate: "hey here is train A, I wanna drive this way, could you please take another?". They don't! They are stupid.

They follow all this shorter path! and now they wait for a green signal because of that.

Again: A train cannot "see" the other train, it sees only the signals. And when they are green, and allow driving in that direction, they choose this way.

So maybe you now found it out yourself, but what you need to do is to make the two tracks in the center into one-ways. E.g. the upper track you remove the signals below the track, and for the lower track you remove the upper signal. That's all.

[Molay]

Sorry I forgot mentioning that, but I've read those links already before posting. They were not that clear to me, and what I ended up with after the wiki instructions was what you see on the image^^
I tried out what you said and it works just fine!^^
I did however plant some few hundred more tracks on my map in the meantime and made the whole thing uni-direction, which was much easier to do with the stop lights. I guess next time I'll try out the bi-directional trains correctly with your method, which works wonders in my tests. I obviously placed the stop signs at very bad places here^^ Thanks again for the help! It seems so simple now O.o

[Agnapot]

Glad you figured it out! I had a similar confusion with the trains/signals/etc. For example, did you know that stations have to be put on the RIGHT side of the tracks (instead of the LEFT) or else they won't work right?? Hah! Spent a couple days trying to figure that out. =p

It would be nice, I think, if there was a little tutorial for the trains in the campaign level with this information (like there was for belts and various other things describing the mechanics)

[Molay]

Agnapot, you're not alone.
It took me some 30 minutes to find out why my trains couldn't find a path the first time I made that mistake. Meticulously verifying every piece of rail was a real time waster in that case, but at least it makes the whole experience of finding out what I messed up much more memorable, and hopefully will prevent me from repeating it^^
(PS: Stops can be on the left side actually, if the train enters the other direction. That's how bi-directional trains operate. You can make terminal stop on the left, and all others on the right, for example)

I agree that more of a tutorial would be good. The campaign mission (mission 2 I believe?) where you are confronted with trains kind of helps, as it really pushes you to use them. But it's really just the basics, a full fledged explanation/tutorial would be great!

[ssilk]

It would be nice, I think, if there was a little tutorial for the trains in the campaign level with this information (like there was for belts and various other things describing the mechanics)

Kovarex mentioned now two times, that some kind of training level inside the tutorial should help to get into the deep details.

It took me some 30 minutes to find out why my trains couldn't find a path the first time I made that mistake. Meticulously verifying every piece of rail was a real time waster in that case, but at least it makes the whole experience of finding out what I messed up much more memorable, and hopefully will prevent me from repeating it^^

https://forums.factorio.com/wiki/inde ... Train_stop
I know that cannot be read in the beginning, but I mention it here, because others will read this article, too.