First Mods + other questions

[T3E]

Hello there!

I've been back to Factorio after some time, and again managed to quickly reach endgame, PowerArmor up and on a good way to get my Missile Defense up as well (so basically I will be done in a few hours with the very basic game).

Few things I would like an opinion on:

1) What kind of mods are worth trying? I find the basic game already very nice, but of course more diversity in regard of elements(ore or liquids) doesn't seem wrong either. But scouting around and taking a look at bobs mods for example, the amount of added elements seem to be really huge(?).

Like a shitload of chemicals that I will have to include in production chains, seems a little over the top for my taste (especially because fluids are really my nemesis).

DyTech seems interesting as well,especially the modules (with pollution reduction) but the idea of ItemX MK1-6 seems boring. I do like the added Upgrades for RoboPorts or other certain items, but some items seem to have endless versions and I wonder if its not getting boring after some time to simply get "just another upgrade"?

Are there other ModPacks? I do like the combination and I certainly want to add some interesting content, but all in all I am not sure if those mods really change that much regarding enjoyment for me.

Also I only saw one Mod for Nuclear Energy, which was sadly only based on Steam engines and other stock items, I would love to see some proper Nuclear Power Plant, including of course the required Elements. (not just heat up water and pretend its nuclear)


2) Base building
When I begin, I basically try to automate science packs (obviously) as fast as possible. This is basically the goal for me in the beginning, resulting in my factory in the endgame looks messy, shitty and really not cool.

I do of course extend in every direction, getting new mining spots around the base and transfer the ressources to the main base or simply build new construction sites, but it still somehow doesn't give me the feel of "huge factory".

So to get those nice factory designs, do you start those after you established a "main" base? Or do you re-work your Mainbase after you researched everything and you build it from scrap, with a lot of resources bunkered?

And how do you approach it? Starting with end-game factories first and build the base slowly layer by layer? Because starting from early items to endgame items seems to be easily misleading regarding space required.


3) Trains

I tried last time I played through the trains, but somehow it feels like transport belts (fast ones) seem superior? Unloading/Loading + Train riding time vs. fast transport belts fully filled doesn't seem to be an even match.
I do like trains for the pure purpose of having trains tho, but it feels I slow myself down.


4) Production Ratios

Mining/Smelting ratios are the smallest problems I have (since its so easy to fix with more drills or more smelters, one by one).

Problems accuse with the Circuits, green ones, red ones and of course blue ones. I either build sites with incredible oversized EC production, but then fail with the Red production or the blue one, are there some numbers to help me out?


5) Networking

So far I don't see the purpose of networks, I know how it works but I simply don't see the point of them?

6) Enemies
I always played in the peaceful mode, I certainly want to play without it next game, is it a big difference? Biters can spawn really close sometimes, and having steam engines running will result in fast pollution, maybe before I get decent ammo production/defense lines?

Cheers and would love to hear some answers, feel free to write down anything that could help me.

T3E

[TheWhat]

Hey!
I've only been playing for some weeks but maybe you will find my input useful anyways.

1) + 3)
I cannot play the game without RSO anymore.
In the vanilla game there is little reason to use trains, but with RSO you kind of need to use them to cover the huge distances between resources and your base.
Also trains scale way better than belts!

2)
I like the concept of building a base to build a base. I build a small efficient self-sustaining factory that can supply the materials to build larger factories. Also trains are excellent in this case because you can dedicate a cargo wagon to building materials and expand over huge distances.

4)
Can't say too much about GC other than considering the 3 Copper Cables to 2 GC ratio and not using belts for the cables. Also have enough room to expand production when (not if) necessary

5)
You can do really cool stuff with it! In the early game, I setup blinking lights whenever a critical resource gets low so I know when to refill. Also very useful to redirect liquid flow with pumps when you have enough of one product.

6)
I prefer playing with biters enabled, it is a huge difference in my opinion. You'll need to consider pollution and there's always a tradeoff in terms of building your base vs. defending yourself against biters. Makes for a much more interesting early and midgame imo

[ccik]

Hello.

My thoughts to your questions.

1.) I always use the RSO mod. It changes the way ressource patches spawn. In a nutshell, ressource are fewer and the distances beetween the ressources are quite a bit longer. With this, the use of trains is neccessary. But the patches are still big enough to support a huge factory. This changes the gameplay quite a lot. You need to set up some sort of automation for outpost building. In addition to this, i use the FARL mod, which makes train track building a lot easier and faster. Additionally, i use the Railtanker mod to transport Oil via train. It just feels like this is the way oil should be transported. I think i may get into Bob's mods at some point, but by now, i still have the feeling that there more things to be done in the basegame. Like expandig rocket production.

2.) I always go with the main bus design. If you do a search on the forum, you will find enough topics covering the basics of this. For all the production lines for intermediate products, i keep enough room around them to expand each line at least to 5 times the original design. This uses a lot of space initially, but pays off in late game. In my newest game, i build new production chains for the rocket parts. Because i use RSO, i usually end up with a huge train network, so there is always enough room to set up these chains. This means i have a fairly large base producing all the things in need for construction, as well as science packs. And lot of smaller bases with a specific purpose, designed to provide materials for rocket production.

3.) The decision between trains and conveyor belts depends on distance, and mostly, personal preference. I like building a train network. In my current playthrough, my 1 loco, 6 waggon iron ore train needs about one minute from the mines to the smeltery outpost. I need 3 of them to keep the smeltery running at full throughput. The same roughly for copper trains, oil trains, iron plate trains, steel trains, etc.. So, a lot going on in my train network. Additionally, i have an engineering train, loaded with everything i could possibly need at a new outpost. But, this is my personal playstyle. In the end, the decision is yours. If you don't bother with trains, you're not forced to do so, and you are still able to build massive factories.

4.)I recommend the Foreman tool, you can find it somewhere in the forums. With this, you can specify any output product and a rate of how many per minute you want of this item. The tool then calculates how much of each intermediate product and ore you will need. It also tells you how many assemblers and miners you will need to meet you production rate.
I go with "More is better". If i see a belt with an intermediate product, which is not backed up, in need to produce more of it. I don't care about a couple hundred green circuits waiting around on belts.

5.) Which networks do you mean? Circuit networks, ore logistic networks (aka robots)? I use circuit networks only for my steam backup power controller and some storage indicator lights for fluids. Oh, and for controlling my cracking and solid fuel production. The logistic network, on the other hand, is usefull for a lot of stuff. Currently, almost all my late game items (power armor, etc. ) bring in one or more ingredients with robots. Also, my engineering train relies on robots to be loaded again.

6.)Switching peaceful mode of can be a challenge, depending on your settings. I recommend to set the starting area to big or very big. This increases the distance between you and the first biters. It should also give you plenty of time to set up some basic defence. As soon as i steam power and red science online, i start building on a ammunition, turret and wall factory. By the time i finish green science, i start building walls and automatic ammo loaders. Depending on starting conditions, i can get my perimeter set up even before the first attack happens, but usually i have to fight the first biters off by hand, build some turrets to help me, and then finish my walls around the factory. After this stage, the only additionally challenge from the biters are keeping up you're ammo/power production (depending on turrets used), and repairing damage the biters do. With logistic robots, the last part is taken care of automatically.


My thoughts about your questions. Hope this helps.

[T3E]

Hey, thank you guys for some insight!

I will take your advice and sweet it up with a few mods, RSO, Terraforming and Foreman it is for now (still consider the Ion Cannon ).

I have some technical issue now, I will post it here to prevent making a new Thread or searching in the Mod Threads with 15+ Pages

Maybe someone has a clue or can point me in the right direction (I will anyways search the Threads, because its Saturday and I am really not patient )





Mods loaded properly, shown in the Mods Menu ingame (had to rename the RSO File) but they are not zipped anymore (computer unzips by default somehow).

Any Ideas? Disabling both will allow to generate a map. But I really want both!

Cheers and Thanks again for your Input =)

[kinnom]

0.12.11 broke most mods, and you are using mods that are not updated

[T3E]

0.12.11 broke most mods, and you are using mods that are not updated

Oh thanks a bunch for your quick reply, browsing the TechHelp SubForum for my problem was for sure no fun

Cheers

EDIT: The mods have in their description (ingame) written version =>0.12.11.

Doesn't that mean it should be updated? or are the Devs of those mods still working on it?

[ccik]

RSO Version 1.4.4 and above should be working with the newest Factorio versions.
I unzipped the RSO Folder, placed the unzipped one in the AppData/Roaming/Factorio/ mods folder, it worked without changing any names. I can't say anything about the landfill mod, never used it.

Factorio Version 12.11, 12.12 and 12.13 broke some of the mods. But usually, at least the bigger mods are updated quite fast, if something game breaking happens.

If i read it correctly, the written description in the game means that RSO needs Factorio 12.11 or never, not that the mod is only usable for this specific version of the game.

[goku90504]

can we get some links? what is this RSO mod and where do I find it? what about some of the other mods you mentioned? I went into the mods section but there are a lot of sub sections and I don't know which ones these mods you listed would be under

[Peter34]

1) What kind of mods are worth trying? I find the basic game already very nice, but of course more diversity in regard of elements(ore or liquids) doesn't seem wrong either. But scouting around and taking a look at bobs mods for example, the amount of added elements seem to be really huge(?).

The mod jungle can indeed be a bit tricky to navigate, and it doesn't help that the "mods for alpha 12" sub-forum has been sub-divided into half a dozen sub-sub-forums. ßilk is doing the best he can, though, and if I had an idea for a less bad solution to the sub-forum problem then I wouldn't hesitate to give it to him.

One place to look is on Youtube, where a few Factorio fans do what they call "mod spotlights", covering small and medium-impact mods, but as far as I know they've never covered any of the really big-impact mods, the ones that fundamentally change the gameplay such as Bob's Mods or DyTech or Yuki Industries ("overhaul" mods).

I'm fine with that, though, because I don't like the idea of big mods. I prefer using a combination of small and medium mods to tailor my Factorio playing experience so that it's just right, so that in essence I'm partially a co-designer of the gameplay experience.

That ends up involving a lot of mods, and so I've written this blog post to help me keep track of them:
http://p34misc.blogspot.dk/2015/09/factorio-mods.html
(It's a bit old, now, so due for an update, but I'll replace that post with a non-automatic re-direct link to the new blog post, once I get around to it)

2) Base building
When I begin, I basically try to automate science packs (obviously) as fast as possible. This is basically the goal for me in the beginning, resulting in my factory in the endgame looks messy, shitty and really not cool.

Well, as I explain in the UnOfficial FAQ, one of Factorio's main 3 goals (2 of which are de facto mandatory) is indeed to automate the production of the magic science potions:
http://p34misc.blogspot.dk/2015/10/unof ... -game.html

Most veteran players prefer the "main bus" approach. I'm less organized, less 'ardcore and certainly less veteran too, but my approach is to go for "islands" with some space in between them. For instance (and now I'm sounding a bit more organized than I usually am) one "island" for all my Boilers and Steam Engines, one "island" for my Iron and Steel smelting, another "island" for my Copper smelting and Electric Circuit production, one island for my Basic Industry, another for Advanced Industry, one island to produce all the potions, another island to contain all my Labs and recieve the potions, one island to produce my robots.

In some cases, such as when making green circuits, it's actually very valuable to think things through and go by ratios. But in other cases, it's almost as good to just use what I call "Industry Loops", or other loops.

These are double-loops, 2 Transport Belts thus 4 lanes, containing 3 or usually 4 mats, that can together be used for lots of things.

One thing I like to do, which isn't quite this concept, is to have a "Taker" Area, as explained here:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/viewtop ... 18&t=15247
(The first post explains the concept, and a few posts further down I provide a screenshot - eventaully there'll be more and better screenshots in the UnOfficial FAQ)

The idea with the "Taker" Area is that most of the time spent on hand-crafting needed stuff, such as Inserters or Assembler Machines, is actually spent on crafting the intermediate materials, such as Gear Wheels and Electric Circuits, or Pipes. If you already have those intermediate mats in your inventory then crafting end products like Steam Engines, Assembler Machines or Labs is surprisingly fast.

Thus the "Taker" Area is the place that makes Gear Wheels, Electric Circuits and Pipes for one purpose only: To lie in buffer and wait for you to come and take what you need. (Later, of course, when you get your Logistics system up you'll replace those buffer chests with Passive Provider Chests, so that the Logi bots can bring you the mats you need.)

The "Taker" area is also the place where you go to grab raw Plate, when you need it, with the Inserters filling the raw Plate buffer chests being placed so that they can only take that which has already been all the way around the loop without being needed.



Now, on to actual industry loops.

The Basic Industry Loop is one that contains 4 mats: Iron Plate, Copper Plate, Gear Wheels and Electric Circuits, one per lane.

With just those 4, you can make a lot of things already. Gun Turrets, Labs, Lamps, Inserters of all kinds. Lots of things. So you just have this big loop, perhaps 30 or 40 or 50 tiles long, and then alongside the loop you place machines to produce the stuff and put the stuff into slot-limited buffer chests. (Which again, later, you can include in the Logi system.)

I actually also make a similar but smaller loop, with the same contents, for my magic science production area, because such a loop is very handy for making red potions, Inserters, Belts and Smart Inserters, with the last 3 being intermedaite ingredients for green and blue potions.

Peraps more interesting is the Advanced Industry Loop.
Again, it's 4 lanes, one with Steel, one with Batteries, one with green circuits and one with red circuits.

Alone, those 4 can't actually make a whole lot. But they're almost-complete mats for a lot of things. If you bring in just any 1 mat, and combine with 2 or 3 of those on the loop, you can make a lot of advanced game stuff. Mostly what need to be brought in is Iron Plate and Copper Plate.

If you bring in Iron Plate, you can combine with the stuff on the Advanced Loop to make Accumulators.

If you use some of that Iron Plate to make Gear Wheels, you can combine those Gear Wheels with the stuff on the Adv. Loop to make RoboPorts.

If you bring in Copper Plate, you can make Solar Panels. And SubStaions.

Without bringing anything in, you can make Laser Turrets.

If you bring in Electric Engine Units, you can make Robot Frames.

If you want to, you can make Engines Units and Electric Engine Units, and Gates, from the Advanced Loop too, and even Processing Units, but I actually don't do that. I think that's taking things to excess.

But the whole concept behind Industry Loops is that they simplify things, at the cost of a slight amount of efficiency. You just make the loop, then once you have it, you use it. It's got the neatest stuff on it already, so you just have to Belt in one more item to craft the wondrous things. One more thing per thing, that is. But it's still worthwhile to do, I think.

4) Production Ratios[/b]

Mining/Smelting ratios are the smallest problems I have (since its so easy to fix with more drills or more smelters, one by one).

Problems accuse with the Circuits, green ones, red ones and of course blue ones. I either build sites with incredible oversized EC production, but then fail with the Red production or the blue one, are there some numbers to help me out?

You'll find some of the basic ratios in my UnOfficial FAQ, in the Advice 1 section:
http://p34misc.blogspot.dk/2015/10/unof ... ice-1.html

The main 3 ones you need to know, though, are that

You need 1 Offshore Pump per 13 Boilers per 10 Steam Engines.
You need 3 machines producing Copper Wire for each 2 machines producing Electric Circuits
You need 1 machine producing Copper Wire for each 8 machines producing Advanced Circuits

For Processing Units, the blue ones, there really is no advice. Just make sure they're supplied with a lot of Electric Circuits and a few Advanced Circuits (since each Unit requires 20 green and 2 reds) and some Sulphuric Acid.

I think for a modest singleplayer factory, you might want 10 machines producing Advanced Circuits and 4 machines making Processing Units. I'd prefer to have many more, even for SP (and many more again for coop MP), but that's because I'm ambitious and greedy. Try to have 10 or maybe 12 machines making red circuits, and at least 3 and preferably 4 making blues.

As for greens? Just go amok, make a lot of machines for those, and produce so you have a buffer. Starting with 8 machines making Electric Circuits (which would require 12 machines making Copper Wire) could be good. You can also try having each machine that makes the Electric Circutis output into a buffer chest, limited to 1 each per chest (1 stack of greens is 200 units), because early on you won't need a whole lot of greens, so you can build up a buffer, and then later on when demand goes up (when you want to make red circuits, blue circuits and modules) you'll start eating into that buffer, meaning you can make a bunch of the desirable stuff (e.g. for outfitting your Power Armor) very quickly.

Balancing miners and smelters? Sure, you can try to do that. I prefer to just mine excessively, though, because the way Factorio works, if an Electric Mining Drill can't output, it just stops working. It ceases using electrical power, and it ceases polluting. Because of this, there's no reason not to make a few more Miners than you need. They'll just buffer up their Belts and then stop, and once you start consuming more of their ore, they'll resume working.

5) Networking

So far I don't see the purpose of networks, I know how it works but I simply don't see the point of them?

Well, the whole wire thing in general isn't of much use in vanilla Factory, but using the Smarter Circuitry mod (talked about on my mods page) you become able to do a lot of things, such as reduce Steam Engine output when your Accumulators are full, so that you run more on Solar and less on Coal than you'd be able to in the vanilla game.

There's another mod, not yet included in my blog post (that's one reason why it needs updating), Robotic Combinators, which also enables you to know how many of each of the two types of robots you have. I haven't actually made use of that mod yet, but my idea is to control automated production of Construction Robots and Logistics Robots so that I "tell" my factory how many I want of each, via a Constant Combinator (e.g. I might want 100 Construction and 80 Logi) and then the factory continues to make robots until the numbers equal or exceed the ones I've mandated. Then as robots are destroyed, new ones are made to replace them, and when I feel like having more robots, I can go to the Constant Combinators and change the figures (perhaps to 250 Con and 300 Logi).

Most or hopefully all of that functionality will come to the vanilla game with alpha 13, but as of now, I can well understand your bewilderment. The wire system isn't really very useful.

[ccik]

can we get some links? what is this RSO mod and where do I find it? what about some of the other mods you mentioned? I went into the mods section but there are a lot of sub sections and I don't know which ones these mods you listed would be under

RSO: The link for the subforum: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=79

Railtanker: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =93&t=6847

FARL: Link to the subforum: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=61

The mod section is confusing, but with a little effort most of the mods are easy to find.

[vanatteveldt]

I started a new game a couple days back, after reaching (but not completing) the end game a bit too easily on my first real play-through.

I wanted to get more train action, and spice up the difficulty a little bit, so I added RSO (to have less nearby ore) and ScienceCostTweaker to add higher science cost and dedicated science production chains.

I also added FARL and SmartTrains to help with train management, especially FARL is a blast as it takes the pain out of track building. I chose not to use rail tanker as I had never used barrels, and it's actually fairly easy to set up.

Finally, I added STRS to get more radar options, although I've only used the long range radars so far. I like their idea of having multiple radar levels that you need to research, and you do need longer range radar to work with RSO.

Code: Select all

FARL_0.4.41.zip
rso-mod_1.4.6.zip
ScienceCostTweaker_0.12.10.zip
SmartTrains_0.3.7.zip
STRS_0.0.5.zip