Destroyers require a buff

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imTheSupremeOne
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Destroyers require a buff

Post by imTheSupremeOne »

Prelude: please don't merge this topic with another one. I see how there could be other treads proposing buff to combat robots, but, this one is about current experience from my deathworld...



Today I was doing a 100 robots per time achievement, with the most expensive laser combat robots(destroyers) and +4 space upgrades to laser damage, and I was really disappointed in how weak they are turned out to be and how bad you feel using them...

The main problem, I would say, is that they didn't get buffed after Spitters and Worms AoE Spits addition. Spits can stack together and make you omegaslow. The longer you are fighting the worse is the area. This forces you to either make a pauses and wait until it disappears or have enough damage to quickly kill everything... And making pauses with expensive temporary robots isn't something that you want...

Against Behemoths, even 100 buffed with +4 space laser science don't deal enough damage, so you have to run around just like with Personal Laser Defences(PLD). And even though your DPS is higher and you are more mobile/tanky it's extremely weak and feels bad because 100 robots(with +4 space damage) are 25 capsules, and 2 of that capsule is like a price of 1 nuclear rocket!!

So you are ending up with a very expensive, temporary thing that feels only somewhat better then PLDs. While you kiting biters and swinging robots some of them are also get eaten by biters.

I've spend more than 50 capsules to clear 2 giant nests that are close to eachother, and great amount of time, when I could clear that with only 4, very maximum 6, nukes in a moment. Plus extra flamethrower cleaning, which again, when using Destroyers you are left with a big tail of chasing biters...

My suggestion would be either make destroyers melt everything by raw DPS(as they are temporary and very expensive), or increase range, and make them prioritise bases and worms first, which is completely justifiable by their cost...

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Re: Destroyers require a buff

Post by quyxkh »

Yeah. The worm revamp turned them into the customers and you the bear in a shooting gallery where the guns drown you in acid-feces contact cement. Getting to shoot back doesn't make that fun for me. There is nothing on this or any earth less entertaining to use than standoff weaponry.

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Re: Destroyers require a buff

Post by Koub »

I won't merge if you absolutely don't want a merge, but I feel the discussion just extends the one this thread :
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=68384.
The destroyer capsules were crappy, and the worms got severely buffed, which turned the capsules into a even worse joke.
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Re: Destroyers require a buff

Post by hale42 »

back before the spitter upgrade, I used them in the tank, they did pretty well in very very large groups. Since the upgrade I haven't found a use for them.

before the upgrade they are just a toy to use and after they are a boring toy to use sadly.

IMO make the permanent just like the logi/const bots (use personal robo/normal robo) add a 3rd zone of the robos "combat"
I would say do the same for the red ammo bots as well (except they deploy and automatically take 1 clip from your inventory of the highest or lowest tier ammo)

Then either remove a bot follower upgrade or put something else (speed I'm guessing)

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Re: Destroyers require a buff

Post by mudcrabempire »

It won't happen. Destroyers are not misbalanced, they are conceptually not suited as a final solution to combat. As long as there are nukes and artillery, destroyers will never be a reasonable choice for biter killing. Combat robots are cheap to research, therefore provide you with a temporary boost until you get the more powerfull stuff.
The expensiveness of destroyer capsules and some other stuff is arguably a misbalance in that regard but combat robots in general feel to me like a relic, something that was once introduced for some reason and then just stuck around and by today noone cares to remove it even though they don't really serve a purpose anymore.
If you want usefull combat robots (especially at the stage of destroyers, when they compete with high-quality modular armor, laser turrets, rocket launchers, nukes, artillery, ...) you're going to need more than tweak some numbers. Combat robots need a complete overhaul (all of them except maybe defenders) starting from their very concept.

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ssilk
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Re: Destroyers require a buff

Post by ssilk »

Destroyers are still quite effective if used together with other capsules/ weapons. Their main goal is to protect you.

Good combination is for example with distractors.
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Re: Destroyers require a buff

Post by foamy »

I want to like destroyers, and pre-acid they were pretty effective in bulk, but using them sucks because to get useful numbers you need to click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click and click. And possibly click some more.

Give me a way to click once and deploy up-to-maximum-follower-count numbers of combat robots and life'd be much easier. Better still, find a way to make it so that, e.g., ten robots is in fact a serious way to destroy nests, if not on a par with atomic bombs at least up there with ordinary explosive rockets. Extend the time they last, give 'em regening shields, make 'em a higher priority target than the player, up their damage, all of the above. Something.

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Re: Destroyers require a buff

Post by ssilk »

There is a mod which avoids these clicks: https://mods.factorio.com/mod/Auto_Deploy_Destroyers
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Re: Destroyers require a buff

Post by Blaine-O »

Even long before the worm buff, combat robots had been perpetually lackluster and annoying to use. Since the advent of artillery and nukes, it's been crystal-clear to me that Wube should go back to the drawing board and totally rework combat robots. There are mods, but ideally the official mechanics should work well and properly.

Mind you, I'm aware that there are other priorities in the leadup to 1.0, but at this point combat robots are little more than legacy items sorely in need of an update.

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Re: Destroyers require a buff

Post by Hannu »

I agree. It is sad that combat bots have become obsolete compared to personal lasers or evolved biters. Bots would fit much better in Factorio's philosophy because they need materials, logistics, production plants etc. Laser defense is easy but boring no-brainer solution. Just build once and forget. In my opinion combat bots should be main close combat weapon on mid and end game (with nukes).

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