Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

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SirSmuggler
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by SirSmuggler »

If damage is based solely on speed, then I guess more wagons will actualy reduce the damage as the train will move slower?

Hannu
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by Hannu »

I do not think that there should be any special fancy stuff here. Just set that all moving train units kill all enemies which hit to them without losing speed. Maybe large and behemoth enemies should produce small and somewhat significant damage, respectively. It would be easy to program and give much more interesting defense possibilities than boring and laborious enclosing of 10 square kilometers.

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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by AcolyteOfRocket »

Hannu wrote:I do not think that there should be any special fancy stuff here. Just set that all moving train units kill all enemies which hit to them without losing speed. Maybe large and behemoth enemies should produce small and somewhat significant damage, respectively. It would be easy to program and give much more interesting defense possibilities than boring and laborious enclosing of 10 square kilometers.
This.. yes... please

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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by Vykromod »

AcolyteOfRocket wrote:
Hannu wrote:I do not think that there should be any special fancy stuff here. Just set that all moving train units kill all enemies which hit to them without losing speed. Maybe large and behemoth enemies should produce small and somewhat significant damage, respectively. It would be easy to program and give much more interesting defense possibilities than boring and laborious enclosing of 10 square kilometers.
This.. yes... please
I agree too. Yeah, come to think of it, such a thing like aliens stopping trains should not be in the game, as it provides absolutely no benefit to the game. Because really, what does it encourage? Building Wall of China around your rail network just so you can USE trains? Plus, it makes it impractical to build long range train connections, as the amount of materials required to protect such a railway would be absurd.

I'll be honest. Prior to reading this topic I wasn't even aware that trains can be stopped by biters (never reached a point where behemoths show up), but now I got serious doubts about making an outpost - heavy factory (which normally I'd love to do). This is a huge deal breaker to me.

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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by AcolyteOfRocket »

Vykromod wrote:
AcolyteOfRocket wrote:
Hannu wrote:I do not think that there should be any special fancy stuff here. Just set that all moving train units kill all enemies which hit to them without losing speed. Maybe large and behemoth enemies should produce small and somewhat significant damage, respectively. It would be easy to program and give much more interesting defense possibilities than boring and laborious enclosing of 10 square kilometers.
This.. yes... please
I agree too. Yeah, come to think of it, such a thing like aliens stopping trains should not be in the game, as it provides absolutely no benefit to the game. Because really, what does it encourage? Building Wall of China around your rail network just so you can USE trains? Plus, it makes it impractical to build long range train connections, as the amount of materials required to protect such a railway would be absurd.

I'll be honest. Prior to reading this topic I wasn't even aware that trains can be stopped by biters (never reached a point where behemoths show up), but now I got serious doubts about making an outpost - heavy factory (which normally I'd love to do). This is a huge deal breaker to me.
I have made protected train corridors, but after a while it gets very boring. And the "very boring" bit is the reason you are right that it should not be part of the game....

Vykromod
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by Vykromod »

I just found out the problem is more severe than it seems - big biters can already stop trains even before evolution reaches behemoths...

This is really frustrating. There's really not much you can reasonably do about it (making turret walls around your rails or entire territory does not fit the description of "reasonable").

From what I've seen on Friday Facts, it seems the devs are planning to add the artillery train. Apart from being a way of turret creep on steroids, it will make it mandatory to add yet another car to the train. It might require rebuilding of some stations.

Just let the friggin train run over the aliens!

t-lor
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by t-lor »

Just curious.

Under what settings are u playing ?
Because i got like 70 trains whizzing around, biter evolution at max. and has been for a dozen hours.
Granted ive cleared out most of the surounding hives, so theres not that many biters to collide with.
But i have yet to encounter a train being stopped by an attack.

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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by Terukio »

I'm more along the lines of t-lor. 60 hours in .15 and I've only had one train damaged via biters but it wasn't moving. There was a traffic jam and the biters had to get through the train. Other than that, I have not experienced what you're going through. However, I suggest playing on the new rail world setting as it will not allow biters to spread past what you've already built.

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Nosferatu
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by Nosferatu »

Avoid narrow passages.
For example: A train track that runs though a forest will be used by biters as a walking trail.

Nevertheless I second this proposal. Please let trains kill or move aside everything in their way

porcupine
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by porcupine »

Nosferatu wrote:Avoid narrow passages.
For example: A train track that runs though a forest will be used by biters as a walking trail.

Nevertheless I second this proposal. Please let trains kill or move aside everything in their way
I spent a bunch of time making a smart train loading/unloading outpost BP (with heavy inspiration from the FFF on the subject awhile back, but a few additional tweaks), only to find the very first train (the supply train) got stuck and killed by a single behemoth biter down the line (I'm near end-game as well, 98% evolution or so). I'm on deathworld settings, so there are biters *everywhere*, but cleanly going through forest I thought would be my perk (you know, not having to cleanse the entire area, just enough to get robits through).

The problem I have with running walls beside tracks, is you need robits to protect 'em. If you do that, you need a ton of roboports. Robits won't just travel down the path of what they'd normally reach (IE: with orange/green overlays), they'll go diagonal across spaces to shortcut. Great, except they'll perpetually run thorough biter central, and die.

One of the most compelling scenes in the demo video is the trains wiping out all the biters, so they should definitely bring that back to a larger extent IMHO.

malventano
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by malventano »

I'd recommend making trains powered by more potent fuels able to run them over. That way as you advance in game your trains can better handle the encounters as they would have enough greater speed to ram their way through them.
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Stede
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by Stede »

Honestly, I think we need to see artillery trains soon. Devs have stated they're on the list of things to finish before release. If I can run a half dozen artillery trains down the line and maybe get some depleted uranium shells on them, I'll be happy.

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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by netmand »

Yes on gun turrets for locomotives!

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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by MezabarbaBH »

MasterBuilder wrote:The train doesn't need to kill the biter, it just needs to push them out of the way.

A simple engineering problem.
Image
This is designed more for snow but should work equally well for cows. I like to think that trains consider biters to be angry cows.

Maybe the train takes damage? Maybe it's forced to slow down? Minor details.
I think: a mod that uses 2 or 3 locomotives, one wagon, some steel to build a consist of a armored plow and locomotives, with enough power to ran over the big biters, and can be combined with regular locos and wagons.

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Divaya
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by Divaya »

SirSmuggler wrote:If damage is based solely on speed, then I guess more wagons will actualy reduce the damage as the train will move slower?
Actually, damage is based on speed + number of trains and wagons (aka "mass").

I made a 4-40 train once for fun and tested how many gates it would take to stop/slow it down, using the circuit network to force gates to be closed. It plowed through 50+ gates without any noticeable slow down! It also was capable of 1-hit kills on players at 15 km/h with around 3-5 level 2 energy shields.

I'm not sure how long a train needs to be to one-hit kill a behemoth, but I'd hazard a guess at least 10 train cars or more.

BlakeMW
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by BlakeMW »

Trains are weird, once they get enough momentum they do not slow down when plowing through targets. It is possible to make a train big enough that it plows through behemoth biters, usually about a total of 12 locomotives and wagons starts to be effective. The problem is they still take damage so if they hit a quite a few behemoths in a row they run out of hp. Although unless you're deliberately trying to run over behemoth biters with a train (and even then...) it's pretty unlikely to hit enough behemoths in a row to destroy the lead locomotive, so a long train + repair facilities should be enough to enable train transport through behemoth infested territory.

bobucles
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by bobucles »

The problem is your train isn't BIG enough! :mrgreen:

Don't be shy. Pack 20 locomotives together with rocket fuel and watch it go.

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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by thereaverofdarkness »

Trains have ridiculously low mass. I was playing around with their attributes while modding and made them have much higher mass, and I also made them accelerate slower while still reaching about the same top speed. Then I increased their hit points and physical resistance. The end result was able to smash a single behemoth biter.

I think a change like that is reasonable. I also made the train much more expensive. The train like I made it would be ideal for large volume transportation between very distant bases, something the game unfortunately does not support very well currently.

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Gergely
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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by Gergely »

The problem is that once the train touches a single biter, their ai triggers and they start moving towards the train. This leaves them eventually losing it's sight, and they stand there on the tracks until something happens. That means that they line up on the track as if they were smart. Then they stop and destroy any train

This is the actual problem. Disturbing them with turrets actually makes the situation worse because while an unarmed train can only disturb them by directly driving into them, an artillery train might pull the attention of bugs from a wider range. Literally.

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Re: Please make trains able to run over evolved aliens

Post by CLion »

Gergely wrote:The problem is that once the train touches a single biter, their ai triggers and they start moving towards the train. This leaves them eventually losing it's sight, and they stand there on the tracks until something happens. That means that they line up on the track as if they were smart. Then they stop and destroy any train

This is the actual problem. Disturbing them with turrets actually makes the situation worse because while an unarmed train can only disturb them by directly driving into them, an artillery train might pull the attention of bugs from a wider range. Literally.
this!

can some dev pls comment on this? just to make sure ur aware! :D

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