Rebalancing request for the hole crafting

[Chaos234]

Hi together,

I am not realy new here nor to factorio but in the last times I missed a very very big balancing update for the complete crafting section. But there for I must mention that I am a bit inspired by the mod "No Handcrafting".

How ever, here are my balancing ideas:

At first I think that all Machines should be no longer craft able in hand because in reality this is not possible. So at last only some Subparts should be hand craft able.
Secound thing is that some hand craft able things should not only require 0.5 sec to be finished, it should be raised up to 5-10 secounds and why? Because I have never
seen that any one can craft things so fast in real.

This means that you can craft things like the Iron/Steal axe in the hand but the cration time should be 5 secounds but if you want things like furnaces or other machines
or if you want any circuits then you must use an special assambling machine.

Also, if you want to craft a train it should only be possible in a assambling machine but also it should be take at last 3 minutes or above because in real it takes much much longer
to be "crafted".

Well, I am actually working for the vanilla factorio which Itam should be hand craftable and which not and how long should it take and if I have finished it, I'll post the link to it.
I hope that you will like this hugh reblancing a bit because actually you go through the world, mine ores, craft many things in hand and after a few hours of game play you have won the
game ... rly?

At the End I'll announce that this is my oppinion and that I'll change it for myself to get a better real life feeling and if it's ok that I can add my wanted changes to the community
in this thread so that they can also see what my intension is.

Other wise have fun with your factorio map .

Sincerly
Chaos234

[mooklepticon]

At first I think that all Machines should be no longer craft able in hand because in reality this is not possible.

I'm gonna stop you, right here. Firstly, let me say that I'm not a huge fan of hand crafting, to give you some perspective. However, to appeal to reality is the wrong idea. You need to appeal to plausibility. Is it realistic to carry a stack of 20 trains around in your pocket? No. Is it plausible? Maybe. Star Trek reconfigures the deflector array to emit whatever particle they want because it's science fiction. This game is science fiction. Go for plausibility.

[greep]

TBH, given the fact that diesel locomotives take half a second to craft and can be done by hand suggests they've already considered this and rejected it, they've very intentionally are aware of throwing reality out the window there in favor of gameplay. Besides, last I checked you can't craft holes

[sillyfly]

...things should not only require 0.5 sec to be finished...

I agree with this - I seem to recall there have been some official talk about rebalancing crafting times back around the time 0.10 came out, but nothing of that sort ever happened. To be honest, I fear now may already be too late, as there are much more people playing the game, and people have gotten used to times and ratios.

TBH, given the fact that diesel locomotives take half a second to craft and can be done by hand suggests they've already considered this and rejected it

Not necessarily, this is just the default for the game (i.e. - if you don't set crafting time and specific crafting category, the item will be craftable by hand and will only take 0.5s to craft). I think it suggests more that they hadn't gotten around to figuring out how much time everything should take, so they left most things at default.

[Chaos234]

At first I think that all Machines should be no longer craft able in hand because in reality this is not possible.

I'm gonna stop you, right here. Firstly, let me say that I'm not a huge fan of hand crafting, to give you some perspective. However, to appeal to reality is the wrong idea. You need to appeal to plausibility. Is it realistic to carry a stack of 20 trains around in your pocket? No. Is it plausible? Maybe. Star Trek reconfigures the deflector array to emit whatever particle they want because it's science fiction. This game is science fiction. Go for plausibility.

Well, then I must stop you, because I am not interested in plausibility. I am interested that this game would be moved a bit to a "real life feeling". You must not agree with my request but you compared a game which can be real life oriented with a full SciFi Game/Movie/... which has no context for me. It is a good creation from gene roddenberry but it is actually not real (Star Trek).

But "crafting" a train is real and it takes months to compleat it. So this should be also implemented in the game (not such a hig time ^^) so trains should only be craftable in assambling machines and they should take much more crafting time. Also you can limit the stack size to 1 and if possible you can limit the entire stacks from a item to 1 or more which means that you can tell factorio "let the player only have at last one stack of trains in his inventory and let the max stack size not bigger then 3 trains" or smth. similar.

I like factorio in any way, vanilla and modded one but I think that such games should be more realistic and for me factorio is definitly not a SciFi Game because SciFi for me means that all the content is actually not usable for the current real time. If you want a real SciFi Game then look at Eve Online because this is real SciFi - also Star Trek - for me but not factorio.

[bobucles]

It's nice that many end products only take 0.5 to craft. But in reality this cheats the player out of the most important part of the game: Factory building. An entire selection of items simply don't need to become part of your factory at any point in time. Using belts to build factory components like poles and assemblers is an incredibly difficult challenge. They require the greatest variety of items to build, after all. But by the time the player might benefit from such a setup, logistic bots are there to take over.

[bobingabout]

Because of the whole "It takes 0.5s to craft", there are certain things like Locomotives and cargo wagons that I just don't bother creating a factory for, I just make them by hand as and when I need them, so there are certain items like this that need looking at and having the value increased. I wouldn't mind a locomotive taking 30 seconds to craft, it would pretty much force me to plop an assembling machine down to make it, or just stand there "Doing nothing" for a few minutes while I "hand craft" an entire train.

Actually, I see "Hand crafting" more like a basic matter reconfiguration device. Similar to a startrek replicator, but without the energy to matter conversion.

Also, I was unaware that you could craft holes.

[mooklepticon]

Also, I was unaware that you could craft holes.

What else are shovels good for?

[Jakkar]

I am also looking for a very 'real' experience, but within certain boundaries.

I do consider Factorio a work of science fiction, and so per mooklepticon's first comment, plausibility is enough. Thus the OP's suggestion that we should have a limited stack-size for objects like trains 'in hand' doesn't go far enough for me, at all.

However, the obvious solution sits ready-made in Factorio's conceptual/genre ancestry; in Total Annihilation, your construction bots and factories create objects (factories, walls, turrets, and huge robots/tanks/wheeled war machines) in-situ.

A train should require first that a train depot be built - a building that sits adjascent or astride a train track, and which creates (on the track) a train engine/carriages after being supplied resources and given the instruction. This depot could then serve as a fuelling station and repair station, while materials loading is handled by stations. Checks for damage and fuel remaining could be made by stations or small checkpoints, to trigger the train's 'depot' flag on, causing it to turn at a 'depot' switcher, after which you should place a depot that then reconnects to the main track. Or you could simply have the depot on the main line and have it stop and service the train every time, if that doesn't reduce the efficiency/speed of your deliveries more than you'd like.

I don't like being able to carry huge amounts of material, and would be happier with a game with a weight limit rather than a grid limit - I know, however, that Factorio will never be that game, except perhaps through major modding efforts.

I would at least like to see colossal objects like factories, automobiles and large gun emplacements something you create in-situ, and cannot physically carry prior to deployment.

Thus you'd have to stop to place a pylon rather than drive at 100kmph holding down your left mouse button to create a mile of power infrastructure.

Or install a trailer onto your buggy with a deployment module that actually drops pylons and reels cable. That would be even better, no?

[bobingabout]

I suppose that is an interesting idea.

Build entities as a blueprint only, similar to ghosts, they require construction (similar, but the reverse of mining), and the raw components (metals, gear wheels, electronics etc) to turn that ghost into an entity, similar to how you do it when crafting by hand currently.

I'm not sure this is something you can mod at all, let alone easily, but I am reminded of such games as Settlers.