Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

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Jacough
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Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by Jacough »

So I just received the game and while I'm enjoying really enjoying the building aspect, the combat portion leaves a lot to be desired. The biggest problem I've seen so far is the spawn rate for creeper colonies. I can't even get close enough to the battle turrets to fire a rocket at them because the creepers respawn almost instantly. This combined with the forced auto aim is a huge problem due to the fact that it prevents you from just manually targeting the turrets or the spawners. I propose that spawn rate for the creeper spawners be reduced drastically.

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by HellEye »

For me creeper spawning rate is good, if not too low even :) There's one global tactic for destroying bases: bring 4 turrets and 4 stacks of ammo, place turrets near spawner, give them ammo, mouse over turrets with rocket launcher and hold c (manual targeting) and you can take off base easy. If you don't feel safe or there's more than one spawner bring more turrets. You can also get tons of electric poles and use lasser turrets, but that's little bit pointless.
For me taking down spawners just need sone tactics and knowledge about controls :)
I hope that I helped.

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by Angelic »

To be honest, the spawn rate and spawn AMOUNT of creepers in the 5th mission is pretty ridiculous and I would too suggest lowering the number of spawned creepers (if not the frequency). That much for alpha-feedback :) If you want to keep it this way, I'll accept it on the basis of this being a campaign.

If I want a peaceful experience I can always go play Free Play and mess a bit with the .lua file... And hopefully settings like creeper spawn rate for the free play will be accesible via the game interface in the future :)

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by kovarex »

Jacough wrote:This combined with the forced auto aim is a huge problem due to the fact that it prevents you from just manually targeting the turrets or the spawners.
You can still shoot at towers/spawneres when there are creepers near, just hover your mouse close to the tower.
The player aims for the thing that is closest to your mouse.
Angelic wrote:To be honest, the spawn rate and spawn AMOUNT of creepers in the 5th mission is pretty ridiculous and I would too suggest lowering the number of spawned creepers (if not the frequency). That much for alpha-feedback :) If you want to keep it this way, I'll accept it on the basis of this being a campaign.
We may play with the numbers, we might make the easy difficulty more easy, but the harder difficulties are supposed to be challanging.
Angelic wrote: If I want a peaceful experience I can always go play Free Play and mess a bit with the .lua file... And hopefully settings like creeper spawn rate for the free play will be accesible via the game interface in the future :)
We plan to add options that would make it peaceful.

PS. The fight needs lot of improvements and we know it. I have plans that would fit with the problem of fast spawns (Something like armor mid-range autoshooting laser modules, and fighting robots that follow you and defend you).

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by Angelic »

kovarex wrote:
Angelic wrote:To be honest, the spawn rate and spawn AMOUNT of creepers in the 5th mission is pretty ridiculous and I would too suggest lowering the number of spawned creepers (if not the frequency). That much for alpha-feedback :) If you want to keep it this way, I'll accept it on the basis of this being a campaign.
We may play with the numbers, we might make the easy difficulty more easy, but the harder difficulties are supposed to be challanging.
I'm playing on Normal, so that's where I'm coming from.
I acknowledge that combat is very much work in progress, no doubt about that, no worries :)

I think it's the combination of the sheer vast numbers of creepers that made me flinch - you only get like 3.5 minutes of building in between waves, which end up being extremely large.

I shall play more and see how it works out, then offer more feedback.

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by orbito »

I agree with a lot of the feedback in this thread.

But I just completed the current campaign and the last two levels only took me two tries each. For me, that difficulty level is perfect and I wouldn't want it to me lowered. In survival games, dying is a major source of fun and challenge. If the world weren't challenging, it wouldn't be a survival game at all. I do kind of agree that the spawn rates on the final level are ridiculous, but that's the point of that scenario. You aren't supposed to conquer the map, you are supposed to turtle and research as quickly as possible. I found that building iron pipes around my turrets and blocking enemies with stone furnaces helped to keep my turrets intact. In fact, after I discovered this tactic and put four laser turrets next to my eight gun turrets, the game became very relaxing.

It's true that destroying bases can be hard, but you just need to bring turrets with you. Maybe someday, turrets will be mobile.

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by Mysteria9 »

I took out the base without turrets, was a royal pain though.
But on my freeplay map I have upgraded to piercing ammo, and the bases are pretty easy to destroy now (even without rockets).
So I think the spawn rate is good, no need to change it in my opionion.
(Please note that I only played on normal difficulty.)

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by slpwnd »

Attacking by placing turrets closer and closer to the bases is sort of an "emergent" strategy. This is an alpha and fight is something we haven't put that much work in yet. We really want to have this improved in the future.

Also there will most likely be different kinds of enemies with different attack / movement characteristics. I personally think that the creepers shouldn't (usually) be attacking in such hoardes. Rather there would be less of them but more powerful.

And having non-fighting maps is a must because I am sure there are a lot of people who just want to build their factory and not worry about nasty creatures attackign them.

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by Angelic »

I agree with everything slpwnd wrote :) Been wanting to write it myself, but there's no need now.

syneris
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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by syneris »

I personally like the creepers attacking in hordes. It adds a little bit of tower defense fun when you lead a massive group back to be slaughtered by a turret outpos on occasiont; however, I just failed the first mission of the 'new hope' campaign (first attempt) on normal difficulty. The turrets weren't too much of a problem, but the creepers were constantly spawning. Shouldn't they have some kind of delay?

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by evene »

Like I said on the general feedback thread, the issue is less about the spawnrate or the tactics to attack the enemy base, but the fact that if you are too slow you get very slowly overwhelmed without a chance to turn the game in you favor again. And it can drag for one hour or two before you realize you game has been lost.

The combat will be fixed and improved, but I feel like the main fix for now should be a cap of difficulty in normal mode (other modes should be as hard as they need to be), the cap would be how many creepers can attack in a single wave maximum for the mission (and it get harder mission after mission).

This could be evaluated more or less like this : if a player was able to set up properly his factory in this "x" amount of time, have "x" numbers of turrets properly automated (and other conditions more complex missions), he can defend as long as he needs to, and then can focus on attacking the enemy base.

Factorio is a game where players will love to take their time to setup their factory, even when they like the fighting part, so losing because of a bad setup is okay, but because you're too slow I think this doesn't go well with the game. What do you guys think ?

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by GragSmash »

That is my essential problem. I can produce lots of rockets and bullets, but the creepers don't pause long enough for me to deal with the turrets. it makes the first level very frustrating for me on normal, even after I have researched everything and made a nice supply chain.

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by ficolas »

I agree with the delay, it isnt any beliable a building where aliens appear constantly
(mabie the alien part isnt beliable too, but that is science fiction)

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by FreeER »

Don't you believe in aliens ficolas? However I agree that constantly spawning enemys do not make much since (unless creeper bases were to actually increase in size over time to form a palace/hive (say over five hours it would change from a 2x2 into a 5x5 or 10x10 building) in which case it would make sense :D )
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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by Dakkanor »

FreeER wrote:Don't you believe in aliens ficolas? However I agree that constantly spawning enemys do not make much since (unless creeper bases were to actually increase in size over time to form a palace/hive (say over five hours it would change from a 2x2 into a 5x5 or 10x10 building) in which case it would make sense :D )

creeper spawner = teleport

and the spawn rate is simply how fast the teleport charges up.

creepers are tube grown assault units that go berserk if not given a mission, which is why they attack in small groups.

how's that?

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by FreeER »

Dakkanor wrote: creeper spawner = teleport
and the spawn rate is simply how fast the teleport charges up.
creepers are tube grown assault units that go berserk if not given a mission, which is why they attack in small groups.
how's that?
lol plausible explanation :) however, that raises the question of where they are being grown/teleported from. Because if we found that building and took it out the creeper spawners around it would then become empty buildings, until a new creeper force expanded and rebuilt the building that grows/teleports the creepers.

as for:
evene wrote:so losing because of a bad setup is okay, but because you're too slow I think this doesn't go well with the game. What do you guys think ?
If you mean during the demo...maybe, since you are learning how the game works it should be a bit easier, but once you reach new hope...
I actually think that if you can't figure out how to setup a basic production line fairly quickly then you should be punished. you should be able to hold off the aliens yourself until you can automate your ammo and research turrets...after that it's just getting enough resources to maintain ammo supply to turrets and then researching better equipment/weapons.

Of course if you don't want aliens, then there will (eventually) be peaceful maps. If you want to be godlike and have aliens but have them be insignificant and easily defeated...use the console/mods
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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by Dakkanor »

FreeER wrote:
Dakkanor wrote: creeper spawner = teleport
and the spawn rate is simply how fast the teleport charges up.
creepers are tube grown assault units that go berserk if not given a mission, which is why they attack in small groups.
how's that?
lol plausible explanation :) however, that raises the question of where they are being grown/teleported from. Because if we found that building and took it out the creeper spawners around it would then become empty buildings, until a new creeper force expanded and rebuilt the building that grows/teleports the creepers.
..........
..........
..........
*kicks the hamster back onto its wheel*

this planet used to be an outpost for sufficiently advanced aliens, it is an artificial planet with a strong magnetic force (causing all the ore deposits) at the centre of the planet there is a massive creeper nursery. these creepers are sent to the planet top, they're MEANT to fight each other so that the best fighters survive to be bred again, except that they see you and think you're a tasty morsel, hence the swarms.

planet wide creeper production and breeding is automatic, which is why nothing more intelligent is found in the area you landed in (this continent is for breeding cannon fodder) when you move out you'll find more intelligent and varied monsters

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by FreeER »

Dakkanor wrote:this planet used to be an outpost for sufficiently advanced aliens, it is an artificial planet with a strong magnetic force (causing all the ore deposits) at the centre of the planet there is a massive creeper nursery. these creepers are sent to the planet top, they're MEANT to fight each other so that the best fighters survive to be bred again, except that they see you and think you're a tasty morsel, hence the swarms.
ok, now I'm interested, and terrified. Completely and utterly terrified. Any species that can build a nursery at the center of a planet has insane technology and I do not want to take them on inside of a base they have likely had hundreds or even millions of years to build defenses... Unless I have my own slaves and advanced technology :lol:

but it does make perfect sense. Unless you think that they should have more advanced weapons, but perhaps we've only seen the first stage of the cycle :)
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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by Dakkanor »

FreeER wrote:
Dakkanor wrote:this planet used to be an outpost for sufficiently advanced aliens, it is an artificial planet with a strong magnetic force (causing all the ore deposits) at the centre of the planet there is a massive creeper nursery. these creepers are sent to the planet top, they're MEANT to fight each other so that the best fighters survive to be bred again, except that they see you and think you're a tasty morsel, hence the swarms.
ok, now I'm interested, and terrified. Completely and utterly terrified. Any species that can build a nursery at the center of a planet has insane technology and I do not want to take them on inside of a base they have likely had hundreds or even millions of years to build defenses... Unless I have my own slaves and advanced technology :lol:

but it does make perfect sense. Unless you think that they should have more advanced weapons, but perhaps we've only seen the first stage of the cycle :)
hmmm,

creepers are the trashy cannon fodder that are only there to take the bullets for more advanced soldiers,
creepers that do especially well get killed, dissected and then diffused into a gene solution to improve the quality of creepers that are made after it.

there are other breeds which are bigger faster and smarter than creepers but they're too valuable to just throw away mindlessly, which is why you won't see them till later.....

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Re: Reduce the Creeper spawner rate

Post by kovarex »

Dakkanor wrote: hmmm,

creepers are the trashy cannon fodder that are only there to take the bullets for more advanced soldiers,
creepers that do especially well get killed, dissected and then diffused into a gene solution to improve the quality of creepers that are made after it.

there are other breeds which are bigger faster and smarter than creepers but they're too valuable to just throw away mindlessly, which is why you won't see them till later.....
Your theories are brilliant :)

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