The cargo wagons are too small for DLC

[zzy8570860]

Whether to consider adding quality effect to improve capacity

[Hares]

Can you explain the topic more?
Why do you think they are too small for DLC?
Why do you think this should be changed?
What items do you want to transport on rails?

Also, about quality -- it's dual-edged blade. On one side, you add higher-tier wagons. Countrary, it requires changing logic on train stops for calculating dynamic train limit as one wagon can now be > 40 stacks.

[danbopes]

Related: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=119199

[zzy8570860]

Can you explain the topic more?
Why do you think they are too small for DLC?
Why do you think this should be changed?
What items do you want to transport on rails?

Also, about quality -- it's dual-edged blade. On one side, you add higher-tier wagons. Countrary, it requires changing logic on train stops for calculating dynamic train limit as one wagon can now be > 40 stacks.

I didn't use complicated circuit control.
I'm just used for transporting ores.
The new quality Bulk inserter and Turbo transport belt can empty the train in a flash.
Trains in the buffer zone were too late to arrive.

[Hares]

Without trains limit control, trains would arrive to the closest train stop and ignore the actual demand, resulting in resource overflow in some places and starving in other, i.e. they might arrive to almost depleted mine and wait there for two minutes (together with 4 other trains), or never deliver iron ore to steel production because all is delivered to plates production (for example!)

[zzy8570860]

Without trains limit control, trains would arrive to the closest train stop and ignore the actual demand, resulting in resource overflow in some places and starving in other, i.e. they might arrive to almost depleted mine and wait there for two minutes (together with 4 other trains), or never deliver iron ore to steel production because all is delivered to plates production (for example!)

I'm just making a suggestion. Let the developers decide what to do.

[Mavets]

I absolutely support the author: trains need quality for slots.
not everyone and not always use logic in trains, to sacrifice 99% of the benefit for everyone, for the sake of the dubious 1% who can reconfigure trains and make them even better for themselves, is not a very effective solution.

[Stargateur]

I would say train are too small for stack mechanic, thus, with elevated rail you can have way more train running. I would still like a small buff to wagons that quality could offer.

[Dreepa]

Yeah, I had the same impression.

[TiemDuJardin]

Can you explain the topic more?
Why do you think they are too small for DLC?
Why do you think this should be changed?
What items do you want to transport on rails?

In my opinion trains are used to transport items over medium or long distances: They load enough items so the buffers have just enough time to fill back up till the next train comes and unload enough items so the buffers last long enough till the next train comes. I think the important factor is the uptime (load/unload) to downtime (arrive/depart) ratio.

With the DLC, stacked belts and quality inserters have insane throughput and buildings require a lot more items per second (with quality buildings, beacons, modules, ...), so trains are filled/emptied way too fast now and they don't provide enough items that make up for the time they spend arriving, departing and traveling. This can be solved by either making the trains longer (they are big entities and it makes them slower + slower depart so this is not always desired) or spamming more trains (more traffic is also not desired and this is capped by the depart time).

A huge upgrade that would feel in line with the other upgrades is more wagon slots with quality. More items means the buffers get filled/emptied more so the uptime/downtime ratio is better. Chests and cargo bays already get more capacity with quality so why not wagons? Belts have 4 times throughput, pipe throughput is nearly infinite and legendary inserters are 2.5x faster. It feels like trains as a logistic part of the game are left behind in the DLC. Faster locomotives with quality would be nice, similar to quality fuel, but this would only decrease depart time and I think we really need more load/unload time to make trains simularly powerful to other parts of the late-game.

Also, about quality -- it's dual-edged blade. On one side, you add higher-tier wagons. Countrary, it requires changing logic on train stops for calculating dynamic train limit as one wagon can now be > 40 stacks.

Quality is optional, if the logistics is too annoying you don't have to engage with it. You can choose to only use normal quality trains, you can choose to only use uniform quality trains or you can choose to use mixed trains. Each choice has its upsides and downsides.
For almost all cases a higher quality train would be an upgrade without any downsides. Trainconditions like full cargo would behave very intuitively (all slots of each cargo filled with full stacks) and other conditions would be entirely the same, even with mixed quality trains.
The only problem i can think off is circuit conditions that depend on the capacity of the train, which would only fail with mixed trains. I've never needed anything like this before and for that edgecase you could just use normal or uniform trains while enjoying the upgrades everywhere else.
Quality has always been a dual-edged and required some rethinking and redesigning for the upgrades to work. I don't see how this is any different.

[PESOKOTiK]

True, i was so glad they added quality buff to chests and i was so dissapointed when i checked and saw that cargo wagons didnt got it. Therefore ig it should have more capacity with higher quality