The way spawners work [0.7.4]

[JackGruff]

As you can see in the above image, spawners are free to go crazy. In the above situation, we're locked in an endless fight.

It doesn't really make much sense that spawners can get away with this and it feels artificial.

My suggestion to make spawners more... realistic is simple:

• for each unit spawned, the spawn rate decreases.
• for each unit not spawned, if the spawner is at its cap, the spawning rate increases back to it's maximum

This should cause the spawner to not be able to keep up with an enemy (me) who is eradicating it's spawn and also recover as well.

-Jack.

[ficolas]

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=16&t=241

Well you are not suposed to kill big bases when you just started...

[slpwnd]

My suggestion to make spawners more... realistic is simple:

• for each unit spawned, the spawn rate decreases.
• for each unit not spawned, if the spawner is at its cap, the spawning rate increases back to it's maximum

Simple and nice idea. I will experiment with this one a bit.

[Nirahiel]

For each unit not spawned ?
How can you count a "not spawned" unit ?

Doesn't make sense.
It's like when I say, every time I play guitar, I make a X on my calendar, and every time I don't play guitar, i mark an Y.
In this case, when am I supposed to place an Y ? Each hour ? Each day ? Each year ?

See That's what I mean ^^

[ficolas]

For each unit not spawned ?
How can you count a "not spawned" unit ?

Doesn't make sense.
It's like when I say, every time I play guitar, I make a X on my calendar, and every time I don't play guitar, i mark an Y.
In this case, when am I supposed to place an Y ? Each hour ? Each day ? Each year ?

See That's what I mean ^^

When there are lots of units outside and no more units can spawn.

The idea may be good if the turret "strategy" is tweaked, but I think it would be too easy with the turrets.

[Nova]

Other way: Just letting eggs appear instead of creeper. Every egg needs time to hatch and can't do anything, until it has hatched. Every egg counts like normal biters for the "spawn rate".

[ficolas]

Other way: Just letting eggs appear instead of creeper. Every egg needs time to hatch and can't do anything, until it has hatched. Every egg counts like normal biters for the "spawn rate".

wouldnt that make creeper base attacking too easy?

[Dakkanor]

Other way: Just letting eggs appear instead of creeper. Every egg needs time to hatch and can't do anything, until it has hatched. Every egg counts like normal biters for the "spawn rate".

wouldnt that make creeper base attacking too easy?

not if it were combined with a build distance limit so that a player can't build a wall of turrets right by the enemy base

[Trollsama]

wouldnt that make creeper base attacking too easy?

not if it were combined with a build distance limit so that a player can't build a wall of turrets right by the enemy base

What comes to mind when you say that is Zerg Creep from starcraft,
I like it. it fixes the OPness of having a spawner so large that a 4 thick wall and 200 laser turrets still get trampled by the waves, and at the same time prevents making them exploitable using the same tactic.

[Ardagan]

Actually, this looks confusing at all to me right now. We are trying to find logic in no logical thing.

1) Creeps get out of air. You still need resources even to create something biological... like crawler. This looks weird to me
2) Creeps begin to spawn faster and better out of air. With no logical base. (I know there's evolutionfactor but that doesn't play here)
3) Creeps are posted as stupid, but somehow estimate the group size. no logic behind this as well.

Guess first thing to do here is to tie spawners and their production rate to something that is on the map. Lets say like some resource or total value. I'd point here some possibilities:
a) Temperature. The more production you have, the higher temperature, the better the creeps can be, the faster they can spawn.
b) Forests. The more trees are around, the faster creeps can spawn. We can say that this will work as power stations and laser turrets.

This can put some mechanics behind the scene:
a) We'll find more spawners and creeps in dense forests area. If combined with some forest destruction items -- the less forest on the planet. --> the easier it is for us.
b) The more production we have overall, the harder it is to defend ourselves. The smarter is the enemy. This will also put some point, how and why creeps like to attack us.
c) The less forests on planet, the lower the overall temperature dissipation -> the better and smarter enemy is.
d) Each tree can produce some amount of energy that will accumulate up to some grade and with some speed at spawner. Once spawner out of energy -- it can't produce anything.

Thus we get good base for scaling of difficulty with player base size as well as some logic in creep improvement and spawn balance. Adding forest growth rate can balance this to some grade.

Pollution can work as same provoking factor, but I would prefer to keep it as some local-scale aggression that will only force creeps around you to attack. Not some global change.

Having two factors overall will bring us following:
a) game will never stop at the point: I have all solar plants, pollution doesn't reach creeps, they will not attack me. You'll fight whole planet, so in case of low pollution, attacks will still come eventually, but not as aggressive at all.
b) If you have high pollution, all local creeps will be aggroed at you and make your life harder as they do now.
c) The more fighting you have, the harder it is to live as using weapons also produce heat/pollution... This will force you to decide on how to fight from the beginning.

As a matter of fact adding some non-polluting/non-temperature defense/production will be needed.


Of course this is more about big and long games. Short-term games and scenarios are fine with manual setup.

[ssilk]

Note: Since v0.7 creepers are gone. They're always thought as replacement. They where replaced by biters.

To the rest: nice ideas. I like the idea of coupling temperature to smartness etc. it's a good point.