Abandoned graphics / directed network graphs (image heavy)

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dood
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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by dood » Wed Apr 04, 2018 11:35 am

Deadlock989 wrote:
dood wrote:Has anyone tried making bots that appear like they travel on the ground yet?
That would be suitably low-tech. Maybe instead of a handful of slow, floating bots, you have fast ones zipping around like cockroaches but you can only have 1-2.
It would be unique.
You have almost no control over their animations, it's hard-coded. You could move the shadow closer and move them lower but you can't change the way they bob up and down or the way they appear to shrink and drop into your inventory or a roboport from above. You can't change the rendering layer either, so if you shifted them and their shadow to look vaguely like they're on the floor, they'd destroy perspective and look very bad when they moved over buildings. You also can't control which bots get the effect of upgrades, so your fast bots would become insanely fast when you got to movement speed research, and you can't stop them from being used in vanilla roboports so they'd just end up as a massive buff over actual bots. You can only control the number of active bots indirectly, i.e. by limiting equipment and roboport capacity. Not a lot of scope here.
I suppose that also means you can't have multiple kinds of bots then.
Like, bronze and steel ones?
What about their progression then? You gonna switch graphics at different tiers of research?

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by Deadlock989 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:50 pm

You can, it just means that bots introduced early game must be inherently worse than the bots you get late game.

But I don't really see the need to introduce a whole scheme of tiers of bots, one of Factorio's rare weaknesses is a lack of any kind of bot management once they are loose in your system - replacing 1000 iron bots with steel bots once they're loose across your roboport network would be a massive pain in the neck. This is just so that there is an early blueprint building mechanism available, and that's all. Early tier 4, you'll switch to using vanilla bots and actual roboports. There won't be bronze logistics bots, either. People can use Nanobots or Tinystart or whatever if they prefer but it would be nice to have something built in that fits the style, and I got carried away when I saw a winged helmet. I'm not going to town on this, I'm a belt person, but like lots of other people, I think you should have access to construction blueprints much much earlier than vanilla allows.

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:52 am

Re-rendered almost all the in-game entities I've made so far with a better ambient occlusion filter, so edges and crevices pop out more and everything looks crisper and dirtier and less flat. Made a quick change to alloy furnaces to make them more distinguishable from regular furnaces at a glance.

Can't decide whether to restrict higher tier alloys and metals to higher tier furnaces, e.g. you can't make iron ingots in a stone furnace, you need at least a bronze one because bronze unlocks iron etc. etc. Makes sense and would discourage huge arrays of low tech solutions; but then, there's not that many tiers of metals anyway, and some tiers have no alloys, and other tiers have no non-alloyed ores, so it would be a tricky code change for much less of an in-game impact than you'd expect. Probably better to just make sure that you'll want to upgrade your plants because the upgrades are worth it.

Vanilla recipe and tech rework is like 80% done now, most of that missing 20% is military, which is going to need a big overhaul all of its own and probably represents a month or more of my free time in itself.

Yes, all of this is procrastinating, putting off dealing with pipes and pipe covers, which is a nightmare. All the code is in place for assemblers, disassemblers and washing machines, but I shot myself in the foot by deferring iron to midgame because we now need a whole new tier of pipes and making them look good AND functional is proving to be the hardest thing about all of this.

And then at some point I have to move every single circuit connection point by a couple of pixels in a random direction. :shock:

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Deadlock989
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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:36 am

McDuff wrote:Has anyone tried to use the train logic to make smaller "carts" that would work like little mini bots on the ground, burning coal and going down narrow gauge tracks?
I don't know if this possible. My gut instinct says it isn't, but I haven't really delved into trains or tracks so I'm not sure.

It would be awesome to have belt-width rails with tiny minecarts on them. You might not even need belts any more. But even if you could have them (and I'm 75% sure you can't), you'd never be able to get away from the built-in logic of trains, i.e. a train can't have an inventory as such, only wagons can, so you'd need tiny trains to pull the tiny carts, and tiny signals, and tiny stations that they travel to.

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by mrvn » Mon Apr 09, 2018 11:43 am

Deadlock989 wrote:
McDuff wrote:Has anyone tried to use the train logic to make smaller "carts" that would work like little mini bots on the ground, burning coal and going down narrow gauge tracks?
I don't know if this possible. My gut instinct says it isn't, but I haven't really delved into trains or tracks so I'm not sure.

It would be awesome to have belt-width rails with tiny minecarts on them. You might not even need belts any more. But even if you could have them (and I'm 75% sure you can't), you'd never be able to get away from the built-in logic of trains, i.e. a train can't have an inventory as such, only wagons can, so you'd need tiny trains to pull the tiny carts, and tiny signals, and tiny stations that they travel to.
Maybe don't think trains with tiny carts. Instead think belts with carts on it.

You know how you can put a car on a belt and have inserters put stuff into the trunk? Make the cart a 1x1 car that can't be driven and place it on a belt. Now if only we could stop the inserters from putting stuff onto belts where no car is? Maybe put invisible carts on the belt with 0 trunk size when there is no real cart?
Or make smaller belts that have the place where inserters put stuff when no cart is present blocked.


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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by McDuff » Mon Apr 09, 2018 12:46 pm

So the "car/cart" would just stop when it was being loaded? Bummer.

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by dood » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:31 pm

Is there no way to unify regular smelters with alloy smelters?
It's very confusing to have 2 visually similar sets of smelters.
Maybe make the bar recipe 2 ores for 2 bars to account for the 2 slots or something?

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:47 pm

dood wrote:Is there no way to unify regular smelters with alloy smelters?
It's very confusing to have 2 visually similar sets of smelters.
Maybe make the bar recipe 2 ores for 2 bars to account for the 2 slots or something?
If there were a way, do you not think I would have done it? Furnace recipes can only have one ingredient and one result. Any other number of ingredients or results and it has to be an assembler-type where you select a recipe. Alloys by definition are a mixture of more than one thing, so this is the way it has to be, unless you want everyone to pick a recipe for every single furnace recipe as well.

Like I mysteriously didn't opt for house-sized inserters?

Is it really "very confusing"? Like, very very, or perhaps just a little bit?

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by mrvn » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:52 pm

McDuff wrote:So the "car/cart" would just stop when it was being loaded? Bummer.
No, in the video the "car/cart" stops because it hits the gate. You could also circuit control the belt to stop the cart.

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by mrvn » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:55 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
dood wrote:Is there no way to unify regular smelters with alloy smelters?
It's very confusing to have 2 visually similar sets of smelters.
Maybe make the bar recipe 2 ores for 2 bars to account for the 2 slots or something?
If there were a way, do you not think I would have done it? Furnace recipes can only have one ingredient and one result. Any other number of ingredients or results and it has to be an assembler-type where you select a recipe. Alloys by definition are a mixture of more than one thing, so this is the way it has to be, unless you want everyone to pick a recipe for every single furnace recipe as well.

Like I mysteriously didn't opt for house-sized inserters?

Is it really "very confusing"? Like, very very, or perhaps just a little bit?
In Angels/Bobs it is very confusing resulting in building or placing the wrong thing far too often because all the steel furnaces have the same icon. I haven't played yours but better make sure they really do look differently.

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:08 pm

mrvn wrote:In Angels/Bobs it is very confusing resulting in building or placing the wrong thing far too often because all the steel furnaces have the same icon. I haven't played yours but better make sure they really do look differently.
Well, "not Angels/Bobs" is the plan, so I'll try my best, but 32x32 pixels for an icon is something of a constraint. I don't know yet what kind of numbers of alloy furnaces are going to be placed down, they certainly (probably maybe) won't be stacked in huge arrays like furnaces are. I had the exact same issues - building and placing an alloy furnace when I meant a furnace - in Minecraft with Thermal Expansion, Gregtech etc. so I'm fine with having problems so long as they come with a fashionable pedigree.

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by dood » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:21 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:
dood wrote:Is there no way to unify regular smelters with alloy smelters?
It's very confusing to have 2 visually similar sets of smelters.
Maybe make the bar recipe 2 ores for 2 bars to account for the 2 slots or something?
If there were a way, do you not think I would have done it? Furnace recipes can only have one ingredient and one result. Any other number of ingredients or results and it has to be an assembler-type where you select a recipe. Alloys by definition are a mixture of more than one thing, so this is the way it has to be, unless you want everyone to pick a recipe for every single furnace recipe as well.

Like I mysteriously didn't opt for house-sized inserters?

Is it really "very confusing"? Like, very very, or perhaps just a little bit?
Very, very it is. I had to triple check to see what was going on there.
You could have deliberately opted for that to add complexity or something, I dunno. People do weird things for that.

If you have time some day, perhaps make an entirely new, distinct model for the alloy smelters.
Maybe more like a pot to melt the 2 bars in or something so there's no way to confuse them with ore smelters.

And are alloys even a thing in the stone age? Seems like a lot of complexity for what should be simple times.
Maybe you could ditch the stone alloy smelter entirely if it wasn't?

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by Deadlock989 » Mon Apr 09, 2018 2:23 pm

Yeah, pretty sure bronze was a big deal when it came up.

How do you make your first ever alloy if you can't make the thing that makes it?

I'll be honest, this is a massive non-issue for me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTLyXamRvk4

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Re: WIP: Graphics (image heavy)

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue May 08, 2018 1:05 pm

I've decided that this project was a classic case of biting off more than you can chew, and it's unlikely to ever be finished - I've not been able to do much with it for a month now. My situation has changed (for the better) and I don't have as much free time as I did earlier in the year.

I did a lot of graphics work for this mod, some of it is still unfinished. I've zipped up the graphics folder as-is and attached it to the first post of this thread in case anyone else can find a use for it. It contains:

- 5 skins each for 2 different kinds of 2x2 furnace (burner and electric) with working visualisations (working vis are half the width, centred on 0,0, 1 row per machine)
- 5 skins for a 2x2 "grinder" machine (working vis ditto)
- 3 skins for 3x3 miners (1 burner, 2 electric in different speeds)
- 3 skins for 3x3 labs (1 burner, 2 electric)
- Skins for inserters
- Lots of icons in 64x64 and 32x32
- Some other sketchier stuff

There's no license attached but if you do use them, a credit would be nice, it was tens of hours of work.

Cheers

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Re: WIP: Graphics (image heavy)

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue May 08, 2018 4:20 pm

Could a moderator please move this thread to the textures forum: viewforum.php?f=15

Thanks.

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Re: WIP: Graphics (image heavy)

Post by Klonan » Tue May 08, 2018 7:32 pm

Deadlock989 wrote:Could a moderator please move this thread to the textures forum: viewforum.php?f=15

Thanks.
Done

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Re: WIP: Graphics (image heavy)

Post by jessefjxm » Mon May 21, 2018 1:25 am

You made really cool models! It's a pity that your work abandoned.

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Re: WIP: Graphics (image heavy)

Post by Deadlock989 » Tue May 22, 2018 12:30 pm

jessefjxm wrote:You made really cool models! It's a pity that your work abandoned.
Thanks. I may look at it again after Factorio 1.0 but probably not, so it would be nice if anyone finds a use for any of the graphics.

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Re: WIP: Deadlock's Industrial Revolution (image heavy)

Post by nemofication » Thu May 24, 2018 2:24 am

Deadlock989 wrote:Still wrong, but better, and seeing the whole tree at once lets you spot problems more intuitively instead of hunting through lists. Too much green here means too many dependencies on steel.
large image
If anyone's interested in how to make these, the software is called Gephi and it's for making directed network graphs.
I'm interested, I found this topic by googling "Gephi Factorio" :D

I wouldn't mind a step-by-step guide, this software confuses me a lot! I've been wanting to make some more sense of AngelBob and perhaps even go for a bus design if I could just visualize the requirements first!

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