[MOD 0.11.x+ / 0.12.x] Boxing (v0.6.0)

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[MOD 0.11.x+ / 0.12.x] Boxing (v0.6.0)

Post by Xecutor » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:08 pm

No, it's not about sparring with biters. :)
Latest scientific researches discovered that if you put some goods into strong enough box made of steel and plastic,
and jump a bit to fit a little more, then result can be transported on transport belts, placed into boxes and in general behaves like an item!
However only basic items can be boxed. More complex and as a result more sensitive goods are breaking on jumping phase.

Update: After endless thinking, jumping and experimentation with sole, boxing scientists discovered some improvements to boxing technology.
Namely - boxing technology 2 aka advanced boxing! With this technology you can box even more stuff and even craft some circuits without unboxing ingredients!
Somewhere on the way recipe of steel box was optimized and box costs 3 steel plats less and have crafting time of 0.5 sec.

Steel box recipe:
1x steel
1x plastic bar

Items that can be boxed and unboxed:
50 coal, iron or copper ore
100 iron or copper plates
200 copper cables or electric circuits
Require boxing-2:
100 plastic bars
100 steel plates
100 advanced electronic circuits

Stack size of boxed goods is 10. Boxes are retained on unboxing.
Jumping was proven to be inefficient and inconsistent, therefore boxing and unboxing can only be done in AM2 and AM3.

After researching boxing-2 following two recipes are available:
2 boxes of iron plates+3 boxes of copper cables=1 box of electronic circuits+4 empty boxes
1 box of electronic circuits+2 boxes of plastic bars+2 boxes of copper cables=1 box of advanced circuits+4 empty boxes

With this mod central bus concept is a little more viable :)
Also, this mod makes 'mostly robots' factories designs MUCH more efficient.

I tested this mod. It contains only new items and recipes. No problem found. So I moved it. -- ssilk
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boxing_0.6.0.zip
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Last edited by Xecutor on Sun Apr 05, 2015 4:44 am, edited 5 times in total.

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by tecxx » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:20 pm

nice post ;)
i used the jumping method in this years christmas packaging process.

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by L0771 » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:31 pm

It's like barrels but with items?
What about raw rood and coal?

Nice mod.

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by Xecutor » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:47 pm

L0771 wrote:It's like barrels but with items?
Yep.
L0771 wrote:What about raw rood and coal?
Basically I selected items for which express belt often is not enough :)
I never had coal/wood demand this high.
L0771 wrote:Nice mod.
Thanks :)

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by sillyfly » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:37 am

I was actually thinking of making something like this myself. Nice to see someone beat me to it, so I don't have to do the work ;)

A few questions regarding details:
What is the assembly time for boxing? Is it the same for all boxed goods?
Do I get the boxes back when unboxing? (I assume I do not, but I want to make sure...)

As for balancing - this is only from thought I had previously, I have not actually played with this mod yet, but here is what I was thinking -
1. Maybe make it possible to make boxes out of various materials? For example - have a recipe for a steel box and a recipe for plastic box, both resulting in the same item, but giving the player a choice of which packing material they want to use... This probably only makes sense if the box is destroyed in the unpacking process. If you get it back it probably doesn't matter.
2. It seems to me that having a full stack in one box is really a lot. Even having 10-20 items in a box would multiply the effective throughput of any belt by that factor, so if you allow 20 Electronic Circuits in a box, you can use 1 Transport Belt to have the throughput of 20 of them transporting the raw items, which is equivalent to approx. 6 full Express belts... Did you ever really have that much Electronic Circuit demand?


Anyway - thank you for making this mod! I will definitely try it and come back with more concise thoughts.

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by Xecutor » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:16 am

Boxing/unboxing time is 1 second. I set it to 10 seconds at first, but then in addition to already cumbersome unboxing you need to add buffering, which would bloat otherwise more ore less compact designs.

You retain box after unboxing. So, yes, you must use smart inserters for unloading of unboxing AM.

As for numbers... One stack was kind of natural starting point. I don't really feel like it's way too much.
Probably I won't ever need so high throughput, but on the other hand it's better to have limit that is almost unreachable than the one you can practically hit.
Need more playtesting and more opinions on this :)

Thank you for your interest and feedback.

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by Anathera » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:49 am

This. Is. Cool.

This mod is perfect for my new play where i am doing separate small walled off factories that gets their resources by bots.

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by sillyfly » Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:16 pm

Making the box sizes smaller is not only a matter of balancing, it also concerns with the ability to split resources.
Having a 200-unit box forces me to work in 200-unit increments, which may be too much at times.
I'll play around with it and see if it really makes a difference, though. Maybe it's all just theoretical, and it doesn't really matter :)

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by Airat9000 » Wed Dec 24, 2014 8:16 pm

mor more resours!!

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by ssilk » Fri Feb 06, 2015 12:14 pm

want to mention stuff:

Have written somthing like a review: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ing#p66692

There is a bug with plastics: The stacksize is 100, but the box needs 200. Reducing the needed stuff in the plastic-box to 100 fixes it.

About the stack-sizes: After playing around now for several days I would the size for advanced circuit to 100. It is still quite much and would be a perfect balance. (1 box of copper wire + 1 box of iron plates = 1 box of circuits)

It would make sense to have boxes also for Coal, Stone and Steel bars. Especially coal.
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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by Xecutor » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:14 pm

ssilk wrote:want to mention stuff:

Have written somthing like a review: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ing#p66692

There is a bug with plastics: The stacksize is 100, but the box needs 200. Reducing the needed stuff in the plastic-box to 100 fixes it.

About the stack-sizes: After playing around now for several days I would the size for advanced circuit to 100. It is still quite much and would be a perfect balance. (1 box of copper wire + 1 box of iron plates = 1 box of circuits)

It would make sense to have boxes also for Coal, Stone and Steel bars. Especially coal.
Thank you for your feedback and general thoughts about mod :)
I know about plastic and already fixed this. But... Unfortunately I purchased The Binding of Isaac:Rebirth some time ago and got absorbed into it :(
Balancing of stacksize for circuits sounds reasonable. I'll make this change.
Coal... Might add this. Steel... Hm. I never actually had flow of steel high enough to want to use boxing for it :)
But may be...
Stone... Why one would need stone in such amounts?

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by katyal » Fri Feb 06, 2015 3:44 pm

sillyfly wrote: Maybe make it possible to make boxes out of various materials? For example - have a recipe for a steel box and a recipe for plastic box, both resulting in the same item, but giving the player a choice of which packing material they want to use... This probably only makes sense if the box is destroyed in the unpacking process. If you get it back it probably doesn't matter.
How about choosing between reusable boxes and non-reusable boxes. What I had in mind was adding cardboard boxes that are destroyed when unboxing. Cardboard boxes would require wood, water and acid to make.

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by ssilk » Fri Feb 06, 2015 9:34 pm

Stone and steel is quite optional. The point of them is just, that it would need less space and makes production faster. :)

...

What katyal said is also an interesting idea. I currently think a lot about it.

I mean, that the boxing and packing opens up a whole new world of new puzzles.

Some notes for me:
- different types of packing, different materials, depending on the packed material
- some packages open directly in the target assembly, others needs to be unpacked or refilled first
- some packages have remains and can be recycled, others disappear fully, or they are like the boxes
- some packs even dissolve when inserters grab them, or if put into a chest
- different material for packing

But some of those features really cannot be implemented with modding only, I think.
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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by Xecutor » Sat Feb 07, 2015 3:54 am

Boxes of different materials while technically possible, will flood list of items, and especially packing/unpacking recipes.
When (and if) dev will allow items with some attached metainfo, and wildcard recipes as complement, then I'll gladly add more options.
ATM it is technically impossible to autounpack boxes when inserter picks them. There is no such event in modding api.

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by ssilk » Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:20 pm

Yes I know. I just list the options, which might be interesting by gameplay.

I see those stuff also always as player option, cause the interesting things begin (with current experience) when we mix different packing techniques.
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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by ssilk » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:46 pm

I played now a lot more with it.

Idea: Assemblies/Furnaces, that can use the boxes directly.

Example:
- 1 box of iron and 1 of copper wire to assemble 100 circuits.
- 2 box iron, 2 copper wire, assembles a box of circuits and 3 empty boxes.
- 2 box of iron ore in furnace results in 1 box of iron plates and one empty box.
- etc.

The recipes takes of course quite long, but might be 5% faster than assembled in normal way. (not more, cause boxing alone gives them enough advantage)

Idea: Reduce costs of boxes. I think of 1 steel plate instead of 4. Cause you need incredible much iron to produce boxes.

Idea: Having assemblies, that can be delivered by robots directly.

Xecutor, I think it would be quite simple to introduce that, and I would like to write that for me, minimum the first idea... is that eventually also useful for this mod?


More stuff:

- I found, that the following boxing is missing (see above, I repeat it here):
Advanced circuits makes really sense. A box with 50 would be really cool, cause for creating modules you need now only some boxes of normal circuits, but really big amounts of advanced. Optional: Stone, coal and steel make sense only to spare space and for easier transport

- Production statistics isn't correct anymore, but not really know what could be done.

- off topic: This boxing should be supported in my eyes directly from the game. It should be no extra recipe to craft advanced circuits by the items or boxed items...
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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by Xecutor » Fri Feb 20, 2015 8:26 am

It's easy to add receipt for circuits from boxed ingredients for regular AMs.
I'm not sure I want to add new AM that works with boxes exclusively,
since I'm not big fan of recolored AMs and I can't really draw something on my own :)
With furnace things are a little different. AFAIK furnace can't have two outputs. Or was it inputs? Either way it won't work.
I was thinking about reducing box cost too. Mb reduce crafting time too.
Assembler with requesting slots should be requested from devs, not me :)

The only thing that keeps me from adding more boxed stuff atm is my broken photoshop.
It's not starting. And I don't remember where distro is. So I need to find some time to fix PS.
I can, probably, try to install GIMP... But then again it will take some time to get accustomed to it.

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Re: [MOD 0.10.x+] Boxing (v0.5.0)

Post by Xecutor » Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:10 pm

ssilk wrote: - 1 box of iron and 1 of copper wire to assemble 100 circuits.
Actually it's 2 boxes of iron plates + 3 boxes of wires=1 box of circuits + 4 empty boxes (if I leave 200/box).
For advanced circuits it's 1 box of ec+2 boxes of plastic+2 boxes of wires=1 box of ac + 4 empty boxes (100/box).

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Re: [MOD 0.11.x+] Boxing (v0.6.0)

Post by ssilk » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:52 pm

:D
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Re: [MOD 0.11.x+] Boxing (v0.6.0)

Post by jockeril » Sat Apr 04, 2015 11:51 pm

Just d/l'd the mod to my Factorio main install running 0.11.20 and found that the "zip" file name (boxing-0.6.0.zip) should be changed to boxing_0.6.0.zip (use underscore instead of dash (-) )
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