[0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

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valneq
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[0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by valneq »

The contrast for circuit signal icons is very poor, in particular for cyan, white and grey circuit signals. Viewing them side by side may still be fine for many players, but seeing just a single one of them in the settings of a combinator may be too confusing.
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Single colored signal. Is it white, cyan or gray?
Single colored signal. Is it white, cyan or gray?
single_colored_signal.jpg (26.87 KiB) Viewed 2668 times
Circuit Signals
Circuit Signals
circuit-signals.jpg (107.7 KiB) Viewed 2668 times
Last edited by valneq on Sun May 31, 2020 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by slippycheeze »

I just came back from stopping Factorio in 0.17 just after the oil rework to 0.18 with the new icons landing the same week.

It took me a long time to find the "each" signal, partly because a mod added more signals above it, and partly because the new style made it look... not like a special, computer-only thing. Not sure how to explain that, but the rounded rectangle and the "bulge" in the middle fooled my eye for a while.

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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by V453000 »

Thanks, I made the grey signal darker to fit better between white and black.

I've been thinking about the special each/anything/everything signals to be different than just yellow/green/red. I'll do something but I need some more time to think about it.

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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by riking »

V453000 wrote:
Tue Jun 02, 2020 3:46 pm
Thanks, I made the grey signal darker to fit better between white and black.

I've been thinking about the special each/anything/everything signals to be different than just yellow/green/red. I'll do something but I need some more time to think about it.

Easy answer: * / ∃ / ∀

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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by posila »

riking wrote:
Wed Jun 03, 2020 9:45 pm
Easy answer: * / ∃ / ∀
That is actually very reasonable suggestion.

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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by ssilk »

I like that. Then it might be useful to rename also the description:

∃ - there exists (anything)
∀ - for all (everything)

The * For the “each” makes problems, because it’s different. First “each” it’s not a quantor, it’s an iteration. There is no mathematical symbol for “for each”. “*” seems to be wrong, because that’s convolution.
What I saw several times is something like ∀𝑖∈{2,…,𝑛} (for all elements in the set of 2, ...). So when we take the incorrectly shortened “∀∈“.
Would that make sense? In my opinion yes, but not sure: “for all elements (signals) do ...”. Which combines the ∀ with a new symbol, which means “this is similar to ∀ but does something with it.

If not, so I would recommend “⨯” (Times) Instead. Symbolizes multiplication and Cartesian product.

Hm, maybe there are others with better ideas.
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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by posila »

And this is how all of them will stay * forever :D

* for 'each' is fine, as it is common wildcard symbol. Not consistent with logic symbols, but better than trying to shoe-horn mathematical symbol. I don't like × idea. If anything I'd prefer f or → or {}. But * seems as the best solution.

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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by steinio »

Lol your E and A are upside down...

That's what you will hear then everytime.
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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by coppercoil »

- Anything
- Everything
Not good.

But I would really like to see some different marks.

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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by Optera »

coppercoil wrote:
Thu Jun 04, 2020 5:09 pm
- Anything
- Everything
Not good.

But I would really like to see some different marks.
As non mathematician that's how I'd view those symbols as well.

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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by ssilk »

That's why I thought we need to rename them.

∃ - Exists (currently anything)
∀ - All (currently everything)

Examlpled forn Practice:

∃ > [5] translates to "Exist an item with count more than 5 ?"

∀ > [X] "All item-count is bigger than X"

Maybe a little too late to remame anything ... :)
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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by ickputzdirwech »

Maybe just write:

Each/Any/All

instead of the stars (and keep the colors btw). I don’t think that would be to small to read. Localisation wouldn’t be more of a Problem than it is already. Either you understand enough English to read them, or you remember the colors, or you remember the words like symbols, or you have to hover over it for the localised description same as right now.

The upside down E and A would just confuse people imo. If you really want proper symbols I would opt for

* / X / #
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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by coderpatsy »

ickputzdirwech wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:17 am
Maybe just write:

Each/Any/All
I would rather they avoid baking a specific localization into the icons. Not everyone plays on English.

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Re: [0.18.27] Low contrast for circuit signal icons

Post by ickputzdirwech »

coderpatsy wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 2:56 pm
ickputzdirwech wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:17 am
Maybe just write:

Each/Any/All
I would rather they avoid baking a specific localization into the icons. Not everyone plays on English.
It's already the case. Not everyone uses the same alphabet. But there is no way to localise the letter signals.
Mods: Shortcuts for 1.1, ick's Sea Block, ick's vanilla tweaks
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Text quickly seems cold and unfriendly. Be careful how you write and interpret what others have written.
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