Flamethrowers don't consume much oil though. There is far, far more oil in the tanks and pipes than the flamethrowers fire because the pipes will fill instantly. Unless you are playing on a Deathworld Marathon map that has the difficulty turned up even more beyond what Deathworld defaults to. My Fl...

If you wanted to slow down the time it takes to require a tank for excess oil products, the solution is to tweak the basic oil processing output, and possibly the solid fuel requirement of chemical science packs. This way the player starts getting understanding of the items/fluids/infrastructure we...

Or in A17.60? A version that is soon to be declared stable (AFAIK). Soon in the hands of the target audience, right? They could have wait after declaring 0.17 stable and then continue on 0.17 experimental branch with the change. But i'm not so familiar with the branching strategy, if that's possible.

Or another - keep BOP and AOP as it is, but add boilers on liquid fuels. Early on it will be a sink, but later on, when player will decide to switch from steam electricity to solars/nuclear and abandon boilers, he will force HIMSELF to solve the balancing puzzle. Whenever the player HIMSELF decides...

Yijare wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2019 6:59 pm

and there goes the complexity of the game.

Complexity is still there, just in an other position. Honestly, if they change heavy oil on AOP back to 10, you might even need Coal liquefaction at some point.

EDIT: Link to balancing request: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=73829

And to think, we are this close to eliminating Light Oil and Heavy Oil entirely. Light Oil is only used in Rocket Fuel, change that back and [boom!] , Light Oil gone. Heavy Oil is only used in Lubricant, get rid of Lubricant, make Express Belts and Bots not require it, [boom!] no more Heavy Oil. Al...

At least it makes my megabase builds easier since Advanced Processing is nearly useless now so I just need a tiny build for it and then can spam production of Basic Processing for all my petro needs and less fluid boxes. Having the basic tech be superior to higher tech for late game big bases names...

Bilka wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:22 pm

jodokus31 wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:10 pm

FactorioBot wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:37 pm

[*]Deathworld marathon preset was made a little bit easier.

What exactly was changed?

Enemy evolution time factor is set to 150 (from 200), pollution factor is set to 10 (from 12). Attack cost modifier is set to 80% (from 50%).

Thanks. Yes, the time factor was harsh before.

As you can see, the FFF305 changes are the solution we have found to be the best. Please give it a try, and give it some time to see what the impacts will be. Thanks for checking other options. I think, this solution is interesting and has it's own appeal, probably a bit too disruptive. For me its ...

I've stopped at Physical Projectile Damage upgrade 3, as 4 takes 1600 RGMil. Looks like Uranium ammo might be cheaper* to research than go all the way to PPD6, and still be more powerful, especially outside of turrets ? (It certainly won't be cheaper where oil is concerned...) IIRC delaying the fir...

One thing I can add. I turned down evolution from time setting. This way, I don't need to rush that much. It gets a bit easier. For compensation i've gone for lazy bastard (with a small mod that adds me some intermediates to actually achieve it with marathon settings: 10 electronic circuits, 40 gear...

IMHO, they search a solution, where you don't need tanks to compensate in the first place. If all oil products could be used properly, i think the issue wouldn't be there. Sure, solid fuel can be used to compensate, but its not that obvious and blue science only uses a fraction of it. We also can d...

... The so-called problem is only created when storage space runs out, this problem is not created when the refinery setup is complete - as such there is no better way to teach this than for the tanks to fill up and have a player actively debug their factory - a good teaching experience to have, an...

So, I tried implementing the Heavy + Petroleum gas BOP. Thank you very much for the consideration and effort. It seems to me, that option 1 would be the most straight forward, even compared to the main proposal from FFF-305. However, my preference would be option 2, as it looks more interesting. Bi...

you'd need lots of sulfur, you'd end up with excess petroleum if you use AOP or BOP or even Coal Liquefaction. EDIT: the other risk is if you want to produce a lot of accumulator, you'd need to consume the PG somehow. This is a big deal, and the response I gave to why there are so many things in PG...

The second thing that I have been considering recently would be to make BOP output heavy and gas only, no light. The point of “oil processing only feels like a complicated process if it has multiple outputs” is quite valid. This would allow to keep robots before chemical science. The argument of ro...

“Pushing robots back is not fun.” This was pretty much my first response when I first heard about the whole idea, but now I’d say it’s really not that huge difference between late logistic and early blue science, especially with the basic refinery being quicker to set up. I will be observing this v...

I said it a bunch of times, but personally, I never actually got to the point of building into the space I put aside for coal liquefaction. I always ended up not needing it, since I either overbuilt to needs already, or it was smarter to just add a new set of refineries and all their outputs. On my...

Interesting, though his criticism sounds like exactly what they want, more basic steps to introduce oil concepts. Also you already don't need advanced oil processing to finish the game. AOP or Coal liquefaction, one is needed, considering Coal liquefaction is even more complex to setup (and you nee...

You are saying exactly what I'm thinking. And the devs have decided to ignore us on this. They've also made AOP even more of a mandatory rush, when they claim to want to make it less important to rush it. Yes, Construction bots (ie: Heavy Oil) are that important. When you grok them it's one of the ...