Klonan wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:44 pm

5thHorseman wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:42 pm

I see no mention of fluid dynamics. So has that redesign been axed officially?

Right now it isn't included in our plans for 1.0.

Things in this regard could change, especially if things go smoothly and one of the team has some spare time.

I made a mod that helps with higher volume flow rates over longer distances. It's a bit of a workaround given the current flow system limits, but it does work.

Freddie Chopin wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:57 pm

It's pretty easy to push belts to max possible throughput.

The same applies here. It's possible to scale up fluids as you do with belts, the only catch being that given how fluids work, splitting off of a fast source (pump) would require a cumbersome network of tanks. The aforementioned mod can help you there.

So someone made the new fluid system, this person is no longer with wube.. and the state of the new fluid system is... unknown...?
Sad to here.

Best wishes for Dominik.

I'm excited to hear more about potential future scenerios.

News of the fluid system is sad but somewhat understandable with the news of Dominik's departure.

ok, now i'm on PC.. what i wanted to write else in last post:

don't hang on that one sentence in a long FFF.

Back to the topics:

i like the pathfinder changes, might improve some of my problems i have and explain some wired behaviour like trains waiting for a free spot when next to the train are 10 free ones and similar.

GUI i don't care much, i like the simple one we have... then again i always set Windows to look like the old 95/XP one, grey+simple windows and not the colour full ones with round and shinny....

Fluid not in 0.18 or 1.0 makes me sad i have so many oil pipes, raffineries and 40GW on nuclear (without heatpipes), i might get some improvements in UPS with the optimization.
Does that optimization also include the removal of fluid density/viscosity/temp difference etc? Because as "normal" player i care only that stuff gets from a to b in reasonable amount and don't want to handle all the "might not flow because of density/etc stuff" ... finding out why at beginning of the same pipe i have 100 and at the end 15 is meeeeh.

ratchetfreak wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:33 pm

Klonan wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:30 pm

Raphaello wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:00 pm

I find it not appropriate to describe Dominik's departure in the way you did it.

How else should we handle it? I want to be as transparent and honest with you as I can be.

You very much implied that the decision to release without the character gui is the main reason why he left. This could be rephrase to make him seem less like a petulant child not getting his way.

From the sound of it, he botched the fluid optimizations and now botched the character GUI. (I had wondered about this back when the fluid stuff was pulled so suddenly and never spoken of again.) I interpreted it as that he's not working out as a good programmer for the company, so they agreed he should leave (which sucks). I don't see it as that he was so discouraged by not having his code used that he "rage quit" the company; it feels more like he was let go for not being able to produce. (I could see myself being in that situation and it makes me anxious just thinking about it.)

Either way it does kind of feel like "too much information".

Klonan wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:30 pm

Raphaello wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:00 pm

I find it not appropriate to describe Dominik's departure in the way you did it.

How else should we handle it? I want to be as transparent and honest with you as I can be.

I'd make Dominik's departure a separate point in FF with simple "Dominik, who was working on the Character GUI and new fluid system, decided to leave the Factorio team. We wish him ..." or something similar. If he achieved something for Factorio, it would be prudent to mention it too.

The difference is subtle: Now, you blame him for failure of Character GUI directly, IMO. After the proposed change it will still be transparent and honest while avoiding direct fingerpointing.

Klonan wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:44 pm

5thHorseman wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:42 pm

I see no mention of fluid dynamics. So has that redesign been axed officially?

Right now it isn't included in our plans for 1.0.

Things in this regard could change, especially if things go smoothly and one of the team has some spare time.

It's a sad news. I'm not the only one to think that this part of Factorio is far from being complete. It's pretty easy to push belts to max possible throughput. It's possible to use trains running around like ants on steroids to move tremendous amounts of stuff between stations. Bots allow you to scale even further. However with fluid system I must honestly say that my only help is the sandbox, `/editor`, trial & error and 64x time speed to check long-term behavior of what I built. Even something as typical as building a multi-reactor setup requires it, as long as you are not into trying some crazy layouts like "landfill with holes for pumps in just the exact spots" (BTW this approach would be much better if you could just revert placing some landfill tiles, however I understand that generally removing them could be easily abused). If you want to be sure that it really gives you 800 MW instead of like 80% because some parts are water/steam-starved for some unknown reason - for example the turbine at the _front_ (what?) of the pipeline is not getting enough steam, even though 20 turbines behind it are full of it. When I was building a "bigger" beaconed/moduled refinery this week the experience was really frustrating - setup A works (barely), setup B - intuitively a better one (pumps forcing direction of flow at splits/merges) - gives worse production levels, back to setup A and now it doesn't work anymore (what?), do some random changes and it works again (what??), and so on, and so on, ...

Current system behaves almost randomly and debugging the problems seems like an impossible task, so the only option is to start doing random edits or throwing around pumps in strange places. Or using a line of pumps instead of pipes, which seems completely ridiculous.

I must say that I could live happily without each and every of the visual and GUI changes you have planned if that would be the cost of having a sane fluid system in the game. I'm also very afraid that the longer this waits the lower chance for the change we have - new fluid system has a potential to break people's existing bases... On the other hand all the visual / GUI changes seem to me like a low-risk changes, which can be implemented long after 1.0 is released.

Hopefully you can reconsider the idea of the fluid system if you see how many people care about it.

5thHorseman wrote: ↑

Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:42 pm

I see no mention of fluid dynamics. So has that redesign been axed officially?

Right now it isn't included in our plans for 1.0.

Things in this regard could change, especially if things go smoothly and one of the team has some spare time.

I see no mention of fluid dynamics. So has that redesign been axed officially?