[0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

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dahhakd
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[0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by dahhakd »

Hello.

In 0.18.35 when you attack their nests, biters will first gather in large swarms and then launch a full scale attack. Currently in 0.18.36 biters will all just start going directly, individually, forming lines. The game is significantly easier that way, because they don't overwhelm your defenses.

Maybe something related to the AI change so they don't ignore you when you pass by the swarms inside a vehicle?

Steps to reproduce:

- Start a new game in sandbox
- Go to a far place where biters nests are huge so the effect is more pronouced
- Put an artillery cannon and start attacking the nests.
- Observe biters' behavior when launching the attack

Expected behavior, observed up to 0.18.35: biters launch a counter attack in large swarms.
Behavior @0.18.36: biters start going individually to counter attack.

I recorded a video that makes it very obvious.

Here @0.18.35: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d9bj2EUaeu8

And here @0.18.36: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1_WYhMHNF8
Last edited by dahhakd on Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:45 pm, edited 3 times in total.

Loewchen
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Re: [0.18.36] Bitters not grouping before attacking

Post by Loewchen »

Post a link to your save please.

dahhakd
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Re: [0.18.36] Bitters not grouping before attacking

Post by dahhakd »

I have edited the main post with a more comprehensive description and steps to reproduce.

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Klonan
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Re: [0.18.36] Bitters not grouping before attacking

Post by Klonan »

dahhakd wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 3:38 pm
I have edited the main post with a more comprehensive description and steps to reproduce.
Please provide a save game, it is the most effective way of us testing the bug

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Re: [0.18.36] Bitters not grouping before attacking

Post by dahhakd »

It is easy enough to reproduce with a new game, but here it goes. The save is at the exact moment and place, you just have to load and quickly zoom out to see the biters.
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biters-test.zip
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azesmbog
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Re: [0.18.36] Bitters not grouping before attacking

Post by azesmbog »

bitters.jpg
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dahhakd wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 11:45 pm
The save is at the exact moment and place, you just have to load and quickly zoom out to see the biters.
I checked it at 0.18.36 - yes, this is the behavior with the test map.
But that's not all - I loaded my map - everything is the same - after a shell hits the bitters nest, they run in slender columns without grouping towards the gun.
This is very bad behavior.
The previous one was no better when they are grouped in a huge flock and stand still. This, too, is still quite common for me, but I got used to this behavior, apparently it was intended that way.
Last edited by azesmbog on Mon Jul 20, 2020 8:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

darklich14
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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by darklich14 »

Here's a save exhibiting the problem: https://file.io/h2q0DLzUEOLY

The Pathfinder is running at 100ms, 300ms peak (on my hardware anyway)!!!!!! O_O

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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by darklich14 »

darklich14 wrote:
Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:51 am
Here's a save exhibiting the problem: https://file.io/h2q0DLzUEOLY

The Pathfinder is running at 100ms, 300ms peak (on my hardware anyway)!!!!!! O_O
Updated URL (link expired?): https://file.io/TNJ3583lYlrK

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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by darklich14 »

Every biter is asking for a path. Got an arty upgrade and hit 100ms pathfinder with 300ms peak. Server is a beast and running at 4 ups. It'll go back to 60 once all the auto range is cleared out. Please advise.
Screenshot from 2020-07-20 12-56-49.png
Screenshot from 2020-07-20 12-56-49.png (270.22 KiB) Viewed 1763 times

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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by darklich14 »

2 fps is no fun.
Screenshot from 2020-07-21 19-16-01.png
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traycer
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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by traycer »

Noticed the same change in attack behaviour when I was in sandbox mode testing out some new perimeter wall designs. I can provide a save file as well, but I think this video demonstrates the difference well.

https://youtu.be/yGvET2KhRKc

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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by Oxyd »

The download links are both expired. But is this still happening in .37? I think it should be fixed already.

Edit: I have just been informed that we haven't released .37 yet, which might make it difficult for you to test. Anyway, I already fixed a bug like this that Klonan reported to me directly, so I think this will be fixed in .37.

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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by Tomiz »

I had the exact same problem in .36, biters not merging into groups and being stuck pathfinding, nuking the UPS and increasing time spent pathfinding to 30+ UPS.

The issue seems to be entirely gone with .37, biters group up, attack properly, each group has a single pathfinding request, and any UPS drop from mass artillery aggro is from entity update rather than pathfinding. Tested on a couple saves I made that had the issue in .36 and it's gone in all of them.

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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by darklich14 »

Oxyd wrote:
Mon Jul 27, 2020 3:55 pm
The download links are both expired. But is this still happening in .37? I think it should be fixed already.

Edit: I have just been informed that we haven't released .37 yet, which might make it difficult for you to test. Anyway, I already fixed a bug like this that Klonan reported to me directly, so I think this will be fixed in .37.
This does not seem to be fixed in .37:
Screenshot from 2020-07-29 19-44-10.png
Screenshot from 2020-07-29 19-44-10.png (999.94 KiB) Viewed 1220 times

traycer
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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by traycer »

My test save from .28 loaded into .37 still shows the non-grouping behaviour. The same save loaded in .35 behaves as expected. I haven't looked into it too deeply yet, but will report back if I can reproduce it with a fresh save on .37

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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by darklich14 »

Tomiz wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 9:17 pm
I had the exact same problem in .36, biters not merging into groups and being stuck pathfinding, nuking the UPS and increasing time spent pathfinding to 30+ UPS.

The issue seems to be entirely gone with .37, biters group up, attack properly, each group has a single pathfinding request, and any UPS drop from mass artillery aggro is from entity update rather than pathfinding. Tested on a couple saves I made that had the issue in .36 and it's gone in all of them.
Try a birrage of manual artillery with the show-path-requests turned on. I get every single unit in a nest pathing separately, ups tanks, and pathfinder goes to 10+ms. I've seen it go to 100ms per tick on arty upgrades.

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Re: [0.18.36] Biters not grouping before attacking

Post by traycer »

In case people stumble on this older thread, a new one was started. Looks like they'll revert back to the previous behaviour for 0.18.39.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=87297

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