[0.15.1] Productivity modules & intermediate products

[Jon8RFC]

The satellite has been an "intermediate product" since before 0.15 but could not use productivity modules. Now, it seems appropriate that it actually remain an intermediate product, since it does nothing other than get us another intermediate product of the space science pack. However, it still cannot use productivity modules in 0.15.

On a side note, the stone bricks can use productivity modules, I'm guessing because the furnace is globally set to allow productivity modules. It's an intermediate product in most ways, but it's either in the wrong section, or it shouldn't be able to use productivity modules. The concrete and land fill grass/soil cannot use productivity modules, yet they can be laid out on the ground just as the stone bricks can be.

[solntcev]

Stone bricks used in Electric furnace and concrete recipes, so it is intermediate product.

[Klonan]

The satellite has been an "intermediate product" since before 0.15 but could not use productivity modules. Now, it seems appropriate that it actually remain an intermediate product, since it does nothing other than get us another intermediate product of the space science pack. However, it still cannot use productivity modules in 0.15.

On a side note, the stone bricks can use productivity modules, I'm guessing because the furnace is globally set to allow productivity modules. It's an intermediate product in most ways, but it's either in the wrong section, or it shouldn't be able to use productivity modules. The concrete and land fill grass/soil cannot use productivity modules, yet they can be laid out on the ground just as the stone bricks can be.

Thanks for the report,
However this isn't really a bug, so i've moved it to the balancing sub-forum

[AileTheAlien]

Stone bricks used in Electric furnace and concrete recipes, so it is intermediate product.

It's "intermediate" insofar as it's an ingredient in other recipes, but there's an explicit category in the game for "intermediate". Those two uses of the word line up most of the time, but not for satellites or bricks. (maybe some other items too? I'd need to check)

[Frightning]

Stone bricks used in Electric furnace and concrete recipes, so it is intermediate product.

It's "intermediate" insofar as it's an ingredient in other recipes, but there's an explicit category in the game for "intermediate". Those two uses of the word line up most of the time, but not for satellites or bricks. (maybe some other items too? I'd need to check)

AFAIK, those are the only exceptions anymore, used to be that Copper cable wasn't in the intermediate product category either, despite being able to use prod modules, but it is now.

[Jon8RFC]

Stone bricks used in Electric furnace and concrete recipes, so it is intermediate product.

It's "intermediate" insofar as it's an ingredient in other recipes, but there's an explicit category in the game for "intermediate". Those two uses of the word line up most of the time, but not for satellites or bricks. (maybe some other items too? I'd need to check)

AFAIK, those are the only exceptions anymore, used to be that Copper cable wasn't in the intermediate product category either, despite being able to use prod modules, but it is now.

I didn't know that about the copper cable. Yes, what you and AileTheAlien have mentioned is what I'm referring to.

[uukgoblin]

Agreed, the "intermediate products" are now quite confusing. They have their own "Tab" in the item list, implying all items there should be "intermediate", but not all of them are.

The "can only be used in other recipes" definition is not quite correct either, for instance Solid Fuel can also be used as fuel in a car, but it works with Productivity Modules.

An Empty Barrel is listed as Intermediate, but doesn't quite feel like it (true, you can only use it in other recipes, but it "feels like" an end product). All the recipes that empty/fill a barrel are listed under "Intermediate Products" but can NOT use a Productivity Module.

Science Packs also kinda feel like an end product, but this may be subjective.

And the Satellite is a gray area as well. Again, listed under "Intermediate Products", yet you can't use it any recipe, and Prod modules don't work on it.

[bobucles]

Heeeere ya go.

factorio intermediates.png (202.85 KiB) Viewed 3511 times

Does the barreling make sense? Sure, it prevents a duping exploit.

Does the fuel reprocessing make sense? Not really, it's a very weak tech that has no purpose for its place on the tech tree. A single chest will store 133 hours of waste fuel or 33 hours of a 2x2 reactor's waste fuel. That's how far into the post game you need to get before automating fuel reprocessing is even worth your time.

Does the satellite make sense? This is also a "not really". Productivity on satellites won't get you anything before the first rocket. It only becomes meaningful in the post game.

Does nuclear fuel make sense? Nope. Nuclear fuel is a colossal waste of nuclear energy potential and is only good as train fuel. Granted it is an AMAZING train fuel. But there's no hard game breaking reason it shouldn't be allowed Prod.

Does Kovarex make sense? It prevents a duping exploit for the 40 U235 that forms a catalyst. What if this catalyst was ignored, so the prod3 bonus only outputs 1 U235 and 2 U238? Then prod3 would be perfectly okay. This requires an in game explanation of catalysts that explain WHY the prod3 output of Kovarex is different from everything else (a very simple "catalysts are not produced by productivity modules" tooltip will suffice). In this situation the recipe would become:

Code: Select all

Kovarex
41 U235 + 5 U238 ==> 1 U235 + 2U238 + 40U235(catalyst)

It may be a very important balance consideration that the total sum of

Code: Select all

Prod3 nuclear reprocessing 
=> prod3 kovarex (1U235, 2U238)
 => prod3 fuel 
=> reactor waste fuel 
=> Prod3 nuclear reprocessing

totals up to an aggregate consumption of uranium. It may end up going over 100%, duplicating uranium through a very slow and brutal process. I'm not sure how serious a balance issue this would be, but it's nice to not have holes in your maths.