Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

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Rseding91
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Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by Rseding91 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:21 pm

If you want to get ahold of me I'm almost always on Discord.

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by kinnom » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:23 pm

at least put soon there.
no yes yes no yes no yes yes

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by gheift » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:28 pm

The images don't work :(

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by fishycat » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:44 pm

Thanks for all the passion and hard work you and all the team put into this game!

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by V453000 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:58 pm

Kills:
Twinsen: 10
Posila: 1

XD

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by DOSorDIE » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:02 pm

For 0.14 we need that a train can send his cargo to the Network.
So Multi Loader/Unloader System are possible.

Thanks for the great 0.13 Version
... only Multiplayer makes trouble sometime ... Singleplayer works fine.
But im sure you will fix it ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by Rahjital » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:26 pm

Very interesting! A belt performance improvement would be a big boon for large factories, currently the near-universal advice from large scale builders is to ditch belts in favour of bots because they run faster.

One thing I'm wondering is, how much impact would this have on modding?

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by Pigmess » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:31 pm

I had assumed the tick-based belt animation was already being done - should be a pretty significant gain in performance for large factories if they've been updating their frames individually.

Good luck with the various belt segment considerations :)

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by dasiro » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:40 pm

Rahjital wrote:Very interesting! A belt performance improvement would be a big boon for large factories, currently the near-universal advice from large scale builders is to ditch belts in favour of bots because they run faster.

One thing I'm wondering is, how much impact would this have on modding?
ssst or they nerf them ;)

ontopic: maybe we've been spoiled with updates, but it seems to be quite some time since 13.9 was released and while FFF are meant to give fun facts (hence the name :p ) they seem to be the only kind of clear info-updates we get and they don't really contain a whole lot of it.
I bet there are a lot of us eager to hear about the tech facts in a readable context in the same way the FFF are brought

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by Compboy » Fri Jul 22, 2016 6:47 pm

I lurk the Bug Report tread quite often and for the past month have seen a slight change going on.
After reading this FF I now know why.... Rseding91 time for a vacation.
Thx for all the fixes.. while you are there visit Amsterdam if you haven't done so on your way back.

cheers take care.

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by bobingabout » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:27 pm

I see your bug reports feature me replying!

All I can really say for features is... don't forget all the fluid upgrades we've been seeing hints of since 0.10. (Being a burner fuel source, able to power things like Boilers, furnaces and even vehicles, transportable in special cargo wagons... etc.)

I do like the idea of making pipes/belts working in segments too. Finding ways to optimise things is a good thing.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by jaxfrank » Fri Jul 22, 2016 7:52 pm

I would really like to see the addition of a better system for viewing the contents of logistics networks. The side panel the shows up whenever you highlight a logistics chest just does not cut it in my opinion.

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by Nekaida » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:13 pm

Lanius seems an appropriate name for the locomotive :)

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by brunzenstein » Fri Jul 22, 2016 8:38 pm

jaxfrank wrote:I would really like to see the addition of a better system for viewing the contents of logistics networks. The side panel the shows up whenever you highlight a logistics chest just does not cut it in my opinion.
+I sign that
Also I would like to have a approximate timeframe for:
- Factorio hi res version
- a comprehensive online guide for 0.13

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by Lappro » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:25 pm

Regarding the belt/pipe segment improvement.
Have you guys thought about making those segments as long as they can be until the split or make a connection?
So that means that pipes are treated as one segment until they attach to a machine or until they split to 2 or more pipes? For belts that would mean until they reach a splitter or an inserting interacting with the belt.
For your mentioned issues it solves quite a few of them:
- Splitters can still function as before since they won't be part of the segments.
- Saving the transport data can be per segment, since the segments will be the same for all clients as well as between save/load because there are simple rules that decide what is part of which segment that will be the same for everyone.
- Responsibility for saving can probably be solved by marking each segment by their top/left most location id (or something similar) since it would be the same for all involved. Then that entity handles all saving.
- Because of these clear rules of what is which segment that should also be making it fairly easy to merge/split/create them.
- Same thing for migration the old style to this new style.
- Underground belts are obviously no problem since they will simply count as part of an uninterrupted segment.

An image to illustrate:
Image

Obviously this needs more thought to work, but I think this could help solve some of the issues.

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by Bearnaise » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:39 pm

Stable by August 1st? That is an insanely fast turnaround!

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by mattj256 » Fri Jul 22, 2016 9:47 pm

Great work guys. Geez, no wonder you were able to put out nine releases since 0.13!

(I typed this before I read lappro's post.)

If you're going to break up long sequences of transport belts into segments, I would think the best way to do this is that a straight line of belts with the same type and same direction is one segment.
(The segment ends when there's a curve, a junction, a different type of transport belt, or something that's not a transport belt.)
(For the first pass I would say don't make any attempt to optimize curves, junctions, underground belts or splitters. The low-hanging fruit is long straight track with no junctions.)

If you restrict yourself to long straight stretches of transport belts it ought to be much easier to optimize.

After that, try treating this as a single segment:
transport belt -> underground belt -> underground belt -> transport belt
Again, I'm assuming no junctions or curves and everything moves at the same speed.

I hope this helps (or at least gives you good food for thought). As you've already alluded to, the more types of entities are involved the more questions you have to answer before you can start work.

Edit: lappro is right that the presence of an inserter should end a segment. I think interactions with the circuit network should end the segment as well.

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by irbork » Fri Jul 22, 2016 10:50 pm

Train tunnels and/or bridges would be awesome as well...

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by zebez » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:07 pm

Try to start to segment the long belt distances that are just used for moving stuff, with no inserters or splitters at all connected?

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Re: Friday Facts #148 - Optimizations for 0.14

Post by DirkyJerky » Fri Jul 22, 2016 11:22 pm

Train Kills LOL YES

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