Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Regular reports on Factorio development.

Brunel
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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Brunel » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:31 pm

Love the update, especially the flame mechanics :twisted:
Also happy for the stacked inserters instead of the proposed loader thing, and the mod portal integrated to the game is a god send (mind you, I admired the way people organized the mod forums, but still)

Just hope to help with a little grammar correction:
"He buys Factorio keys (apart other things) with these cards on our site" the "apart" should really be "among".

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by kovarex » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:33 pm

Brunel wrote: Just hope to help with a little grammar correction:
"He buys Factorio keys (apart other things) with these cards on our site" the "apart" should really be "among".
Thanks

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Destijah » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:42 pm

I think you guys are doing great! Keep up the good work!

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by fishycat » Fri Jul 01, 2016 5:58 pm

For the love of Behemoth, we need more pics from the cake! :D

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by irbork » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:31 pm

The terrain generation is much better now than it was before. I can actually play without RSO and have some place to build. Good timing considering that achievements require unmoded game.

Can't imagine anyone thinking that buying from sites like factorio.com, steam, gog, and humble store can hurt more than pirating but if you heard otherwise there must be a lot of people that think getting pirate is supporting developers by some magical way.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by iamwyza » Fri Jul 01, 2016 6:45 pm

irbork wrote:Can't imagine anyone thinking that buying from sites like factorio.com, steam, gog, and humble store can hurt more than pirating but if you heard otherwise there must be a lot of people that think getting pirate is supporting developers by some magical way.

What I think he is saying is that it is actually less costly for the Factorio team for someone to pirate the game than to buy it at a "discount" on one of those shady sites since Factorio has to pay for the fraud. Had the person just pirated it, Factorio wouldn't have lost additional money beyond the sale.

Pirate = 0$ earned, 0$ lost
Shady Sight = 0$ earned, 20$ lost
Official 4 sites = 20$ earned, 0$ Lost

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by SomeDuder » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:26 pm

Yea, the terrain generation definately needs some love (Seriously, just create a map with and without RSO enabled - if the difference isn't clear as night and day, then you need to see a doctor) and lots of stupid little bugs in general, but this was a great release in terms of progress!

Makes me wonder how far you lot will take it before you start to think of a 1.0 :) Keep it up though, loving it!

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by neo_en » Fri Jul 01, 2016 8:46 pm

The only problem i found about terrain generation is that in the starting base, some resources are often missing because of water or another resources. So i restart more than once time only to have all kinds of resources at the start.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Mangledpork » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:02 pm

Well that update video looks familiar! :o

This is amazing! I'm speechless! Thanks! :D

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Tricorius » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:08 pm

Holy Balls!

A 53 minute release notes video...

You guys don't do anything by halves, do you? ;) I love it. The best money I've ever laid down for a game. Well worth double the cost (or more).

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by mjomble » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:51 pm

Not only we don't get the money paid, but we have to pay extra $20 fee per every transaction that was cancelled.
Huh, that sounds crazy. Who do you need to pay this to? PayPal, Amazon, Steam? Would love some more information about this.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Klonan » Fri Jul 01, 2016 9:52 pm

mjomble wrote:
Not only we don't get the money paid, but we have to pay extra $20 fee per every transaction that was cancelled.
Huh, that sounds crazy. Who do you need to pay this to? PayPal, Amazon, Steam? Would love some more information about this.
We pay it to the bank issuing the chargeback

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Zeblote » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:06 pm

That doesn't make sense, why should you pay a penalty for someone elses fraud?

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by mjomble » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:22 pm

I found more info about the chargeback process here: https://www.dalpay.com/en/support/chargebacks.html

Basically, merchants get the short end of the stick, even if they've done nothing wrong :|

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by wwdragon » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:43 pm

I'm glad to see so many good things in this update.... Shift clicking things in and out of inventories of various types and hitting Esc to exit map and ui is just a couple.

Most of all I'm glad I didn't have to enter a username to goto single player!. :-)

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Zeblote » Fri Jul 01, 2016 10:44 pm

mjomble wrote:I found more info about the chargeback process here: https://www.dalpay.com/en/support/chargebacks.html

Basically, merchants get the short end of the stick, even if they've done nothing wrong :|
"The most common cause for chargeback is fraudulent transactions. This happens when the credit card is used without the authorization and consent of the cardholder. In cases like these, the merchant is held solely responsible."

wtf? but this doesn't make any sense?

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Xtr3m3Shadow » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:01 pm

Keep up the good work guys!
A lot of improvements and I know for sure that you will be able to fix the issues soon enough.
I was already implementing a queueing system for the mod portal, but you beat me to it. :D
Zeblote wrote:wtf? but this doesn't make any sense?
Indeed, it doesn't make any sense at all. This is a big problem mainly for credit card payments.
The payment provider should at least actively help to prevent fraude.
For this reason different types of payment methods are used In the western european countries.
For example in Germany Giropay is used, in Belgium Bancontant/Mr. Cash is used and in the Netherlands iDeal is used.
These methods are much safer and there are several global payment providers that offer these methods alongside credit card payments.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by Kaguya » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:33 pm

Zeblote wrote:
mjomble wrote:I found more info about the chargeback process here:

Basically, merchants get the short end of the stick, even if they've done nothing wrong :|
"The most common cause for chargeback is fraudulent transactions. This happens when the credit card is used without the authorization and consent of the cardholder. In cases like these, the merchant is held solely responsible."

wtf? but this doesn't make any sense?
That's the way it works for online card transactions without 3D Secure (Verified by Visa/MasterCode on MasterCard/SafeKey on Amex cards; dunno about other card types) where you need to do a 2-step login (input card PAN+CVV code followed by a 2-step verification at the issuing bank's site). With 3D Secure transactions, the liability is shifted to the card issuer (bank), so in fraud cases the bank/issuer is responsible as opposed to the merchant (as the issuing bank has told the merchant that "yes, this is the cardholder doing a legit transaction").

If the merchant doesn't try to do a 3DS verification, then the merchant is in the hook for fraud cases. But if the merchant tries 3DS verification, and the card/issuing bank is not enrolled in 3DS (while the merchant is), the liability is shifted to the bank (same goes with successful 3DS verifications when everything is enrolled), making it a lot more friendly for the merchant when it comes to fraud.

That's atleast how things work at the payment service provider I work at (and we are just a ~national provider in a country where all cards are in 3DS and all our merchants use it, so globally things might be different); merchants generally aren't in the hook for fradulent transactions unless they request 3DS to be disabled for one reason or another (usually due to convenience/usability concerns as the 2-step login slows down the transaction and adds extra steps for the end user which might not be worth it in low-risk transactions). Looking at Humblebundle's site (which is apparently used), they don't have a mention that they'd use/support 3DS for their transactions, sooo.. :| But that could be that it isn't used globally for one reason another (when it really should, honestly), I'm not that familiar with the international scene.
Last edited by Kaguya on Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:45 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #145 - 0.13 experimental is out

Post by LordKnows » Fri Jul 01, 2016 11:40 pm

Awesome update! So excited!

The chargeback thing reminds me of the classic Mitchell and Webb skit about Identity Theft: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9ptA3Ya9E

Only here they are pushing it onto the developers rather than end-consumer, which while it makes sense for consumer safety for outright broken scam games on steam and the like, its seriously bad for honest small devs who try to make their games well available in a variety of retailers and regions with little intrusive DRM.

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