Factorio Forums

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:15 pm**

Balancing

Speed and efficiency module 3 technology now requires high tech science packs instead of production science packs, so that working towards power armor mk2 does not require production science packs. This makes the branching between high tech and production science packs more meaningful.
All researches now require equal ratios of science pack types. This reduces the cost of some researches.

Bugfixes

Fixed manually inserting items into the blueprint book would disconnect you in multiplayer. (50408)
Fixed a crash when clicking an alert the same tick the game is loaded. (50449)
Fixed a crash when saving screenshot failed. (50501)
Fixed that trains could stop in the middle of chain signal blocks in some specific setups causing deadlocks. (34844)
Fixed that large drop-down widgets would render off the bottom of the screen in some cases. (50386)

Modding

Added "render_layer" property to car prototype definition.

Scripting

Fixed that calling LuaForce::chart(...) would try to chart chunks outside the map limits. (50451)
Fixed that LuaPlayer::unlock_achievement() would keep showing the notification after the achievement was unlocked. (50395)
Fixed that LuaItemStack::create_blueprint didn't behave the same way as normal blueprint creation in regards to ghost tiles. (50491)
Fixed that LuaEntity::selected_gun_index write was 0-based. (50514)
Fixed that mods could do remote calls outside of events when the game isn't in a valid state. (50509)
Fixed that a time_before_removed of 0 on a corpse entity could crash the game in some instances. (50489)

Use the automatic updater if you can (check experimental updates in other settings) or download full installation at http://www.factorio.com/download/experimental.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:29 pm**

Yes! One of my favorite releases so far for 0.15.

That science cost ratio change is huge and very helpful. Was always weird to have one type of science dry up completely because of odd ratios for some research.

Glad the Blueprint desync thing was fixed too, had a lot of issues with that in our latest multiplayer game.

Great job as always guys! Also see the bug fix list is getting shorter, that's good news.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:32 pm**

Tnx for the update.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:37 pm**

RIP "Odd" sciences. They were Odd for a reason.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:13 pm**

FactorioBot wrote: All researches now require equal ratios of science pack types. This reduces the cost of some researches.

Love it. Good job as always

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:14 pm**

FactorioBot wrote:Speed and efficiency module 3 technology now requires high tech science packs instead of production science packs, so that working towards power armor mk2 does not require production science packs. This makes the branching between high tech and production science packs more meaningful.

Really? So now MK2 power armor is 'easier' to get than the final "Logistics system" research (for requester chests, which needs both production and high tech science) - but the rest of the logistics research only needs red + green science. Changing requester chest research to need such a high level of science compared to the rest, and compared to 0.14 (red, green + blue only - not even alien science), seems out of place IMHO.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 6:24 pm**

FactorioBot wrote:
Balancing

All researches now require equal ratios of science pack types. This reduces the cost of some researches.

I always thought this was a weird bug of some sort, like when some of the train researches cost 2 red instead of the usual 1. There never seemed to be any reason for it... makes more sense now that everything uses the same amount

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:09 pm**

FactorioBot wrote:
Balancing

All researches now require equal ratios of science pack types. This reduces the cost of some researches.

For Automation 2 this means the costs went from 2x40 to 1x80 wich is fine, but the research time is now doubled as well. Out of experience i can say that this research already took way longer than any other research you would do at this stage and that now even doubles.
I'd recommend to reduce research time from 15->5 seconds or at least 10 sec, to align better with the other research in this stage. Also a cost reduction to 75 better aligns with the other research cost like trains, advanced oil processing or Advanced material processing which all are 75.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:10 pm**

jonatkins wrote:
FactorioBot wrote:Speed and efficiency module 3 technology now requires high tech science packs instead of production science packs, so that working towards power armor mk2 does not require production science packs. This makes the branching between high tech and production science packs more meaningful.
Really? So now MK2 power armor is 'easier' to get than the final "Logistics system" research (for requester chests, which needs both production and high tech science) - but the rest of the logistics research only needs red + green science. Changing requester chest research to need such a high level of science compared to the rest, and compared to 0.14 (red, green + blue only - not even alien science), seems out of place IMHO.

it feels more natural that you can run around with a big inventory than a fully automated factory. It's annoying that you're manually building your factory and have to go back and forth to fill up, but it all depends on your play-style.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 7:12 pm**

Nice job as usual. On my last playthrough, the Logistic System upgrade seemed significantly harder than the progression of tech leading up to it. Hopefully this addresses that.

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:28 pm**

Fixed that mods could do remote calls outside of events when the game isn't in a valid state.

Another mod breaking update...
Now it makes subscribing to mod events harder...

Example:

Code: Select all

script.on_event(remote.call("color-picker", "on_color_updated"), function(event) ... end)

Before this update, I can put it outside anywhere, just like subscribing the vanilla events.
Now I think I have to put it inside on_init and on_load?

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 8:59 pm**

AntiElite wrote:
FactorioBot wrote:
Balancing

All researches now require equal ratios of science pack types. This reduces the cost of some researches.

For Automation 2 this means the costs went from 2x40 to 1x80 wich is fine, but the research time is now doubled as well. Out of experience i can say that this research already took way longer than any other research you would do at this stage and that now even doubles.
I'd recommend to reduce research time from 15->5 seconds or at least 10 sec, to align better with the other research in this stage. Also a cost reduction to 75 better aligns with the other research cost like trains, advanced oil processing or Advanced material processing which all are 75.

I agree completely with Anti

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:38 pm**

ColonelWill wrote:
AntiElite wrote:
FactorioBot wrote:
Balancing

All researches now require equal ratios of science pack types. This reduces the cost of some researches.

For Automation 2 this means the costs went from 2x40 to 1x80 wich is fine, but the research time is now doubled as well. Out of experience i can say that this research already took way longer than any other research you would do at this stage and that now even doubles.
I'd recommend to reduce research time from 15->5 seconds or at least 10 sec, to align better with the other research in this stage. Also a cost reduction to 75 better aligns with the other research cost like trains, advanced oil processing or Advanced material processing which all are 75.
I agree completely with Anti

+1

Posted: **Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:25 pm**

Mooncat wrote:
Fixed that mods could do remote calls outside of events when the game isn't in a valid state.
Another mod breaking update...
Now it makes subscribing to mod events harder...

Example:
Code: Select all
script.on_event(remote.call("color-picker", "on_color_updated"), function(event) ... end)
Before this update, I can put it outside anywhere, just like subscribing the vanilla events.
Now I think I have to put it inside on_init and on_load?

Correct

Posted: **Tue Jul 04, 2017 3:16 pm**

Mooncat wrote:
Fixed that mods could do remote calls outside of events when the game isn't in a valid state.
Another mod breaking update...
Now it makes subscribing to mod events harder...

Example:
Code: Select all
script.on_event(remote.call("color-picker", "on_color_updated"), function(event) ... end)
Before this update, I can put it outside anywhere, just like subscribing the vanilla events.
Now I think I have to put it inside on_init and on_load?

Looks like it broke oarc scenarios as well...

Posted: **Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:17 pm**

All this talk about balancing research doesn't make any sense to me.
There is no rule that says each tier of science must cost progressively more science packs and progressively more research time.
Exactly what makes these differences invalid?

The game can be designed to have variance in the research time and cost at all levels. This makes the decision process on what to research next more interesting.

Posted: **Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:10 am**

Bilka wrote:
ColonelWill wrote:
AntiElite wrote:
FactorioBot wrote:
Balancing

All researches now require equal ratios of science pack types. This reduces the cost of some researches.

For Automation 2 this means the costs went from 2x40 to 1x80 wich is fine, but the research time is now doubled as well. Out of experience i can say that this research already took way longer than any other research you would do at this stage and that now even doubles.
I'd recommend to reduce research time from 15->5 seconds or at least 10 sec, to align better with the other research in this stage. Also a cost reduction to 75 better aligns with the other research cost like trains, advanced oil processing or Advanced material processing which all are 75.
I agree completely with Anti
+1

Gonna have to agree with this as well. Waiting for assemblers 2 was already a bit rough, and now will probably be on the painful side I'd imagine.

Posted: **Wed Jul 05, 2017 6:16 am**

ible wrote:All this talk about balancing research doesn't make any sense to me.
There is no rule that says each tier of science must cost progressively more science packs and progressively more research time.
Exactly what makes these differences invalid?

I don't see anybody saying that science tiers must be balanced such that they grow over time, and I don't see anybody saying anything's invalid. All I see is people saying that Automation 2, in particular, is already a long research and this change just makes it, in particular, even longer and that that one change, in particular, does not make the game better but instead makes it worse.

And I agree with them.

Posted: **Wed Jul 05, 2017 7:30 am**

jonatkins wrote:
FactorioBot wrote:Speed and efficiency module 3 technology now requires high tech science packs instead of production science packs, so that working towards power armor mk2 does not require production science packs. This makes the branching between high tech and production science packs more meaningful.
Really? So now MK2 power armor is 'easier' to get than the final "Logistics system" research (for requester chests, which needs both production and high tech science) - but the rest of the logistics research only needs red + green science. Changing requester chest research to need such a high level of science compared to the rest, and compared to 0.14 (red, green + blue only - not even alien science), seems out of place IMHO.

Given that they want to make the branches of science (prod, hitech, and presumably mil) more distinctive, I think they should have logistics depend only on prod research?

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