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Re: They need to rename Gleba to Bartleby

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 3:04 pm
by NineNine
XT-248 wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:38 am I am going to explain the "why" of pausing and restarting Gleba Production in depth here. I thought I had provided enough details for others to understand, but apparently, not.

Post Script:

While writing those posts, I was running a new design for a factory on Gleba in the background while not watching it.

I was using the following recipes: Agriculutural Science Packs, bioflux, yumako processing, jellynut processing, pentapod eggs, and nutrients from bioflux; all through bioreactors.

Guess what?

All I found was spoilage backing up and no damage to any part of the factory (turrets to prevent freshly hatched pentapods for bioreactor/science-pack-production from attacking and destroying stuff).

From what I could tell, something interfered with the bioflux-to-nutrient production for long enough, which caused all the bioreactors to run out of nutrients to keep running. But what is the exact sequence of events that led to this interruption in nutrient production? I only have guesses and potentially terrible speculative fixes.

I also tried using an assembler with a worse spoil->nutrient recipe (no nutrient needed to start) as a backup source in an earlier Gleba factory design, but that failed in the past for different reasons.



And you thought I was joking? I'm sorry to disappoint you. No, I'm not even trying to make jokes about my frustrations with Gleba.

I was planning to add a rocket fuel (from bioflux and jellynut) sub-factory to this new design when I spotted the completely dead-still bioreactors on Gleba. Yet I couldn't do anything as there was no bioflux or jellynut to test/work with for rocket fuel production.

When I have had a bad day at work and want to come home to take my shoes off and relax, troubleshooting a Gleba factory is not my idea of a fun and relaxing afternoon.
Again.... you should consider asking for help. Please post in Gameplay Help and we'll help you get Gleba figured out. There's no shame in not figuring the whole thing out all by yourself. Posting in here over and over again how you can't figure it out and it's the most terrible game ever made because you can't get it, and nobody else can figure it out either, isn't going to help you get to Aquilo. Obviously, many thousands of people have already figured it out, and several of us are reading these forums, ready to help.

Re: They need to rename Gleba to Bartleby

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:36 pm
by aka13
angramania wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 2:18 pm
aka13 wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 1:23 pm Eh, I would not say that there is any sort of consensus of course, or "people drop the game because of gleba", that would be absurd/in bad faith, imo as well.
I just find it interesting to observe, that there is indeed an observable difference between the planets.
It is the most difficult(in first run) of the three but in the same time the most interesting and rewarding.
I would say that it is "most different" to what one usually expects from factorio, that is certainly true, I agree with you.
However I did not perceive it as rewarding or interesting, but to each their own. Out of the 200h I had in the first and only run I spent about 30 on Gleba.
"Solved" it in on-demand-ways to produce science and the products, and never went back.

Re: They need to rename Gleba to Bartleby

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:44 pm
by mmmPI
aka13 wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:36 pm I would say that it is "most different" to what one usually expects from factorio, that is certainly true, I agree with you.
However I did not perceive it as rewarding or interesting, but to each their own. Out of the 200h I had in the first and only run I spent about 30 on Gleba.
"Solved" it in on-demand-ways to produce science and the products, and never went back.
You prefer Vulcanus which is the easiest planet by all metric ! not everyone enjoy sit back gaming some of us wants things that are challenging !

Re: They need to rename Gleba to Bartleby

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:55 pm
by aka13
No need to throw around empty accusations. There is nothing complicated in spoilage. There is literally is not even a way to do JIT-logistics cross-planetary for them, where the real complexity would be at.
I shut down gleba production completely, and enable it on-demand, that is more complex than the intended solution already. If having a timer on items is complex for you, well, I guess that is nice.

SA is so far a regression in terms of difficulty either way, since dw marathon is not a thing anymore, and planets are still unaffected by presets, if you want to talk about "gamey" complexity.

Re: They need to rename Gleba to Bartleby

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 9:01 pm
by mmmPI
aka13 wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 8:55 pm No need to throw around empty accusations. There is nothing complicated in spoilage. There is literally is not even a way to do JIT-logistics cross-planetary for them, where the real complexity would be at.
I shut down gleba production completely, and enable it on-demand, that is more complex than the intended solution already. If having a timer on items is complex for you, well, I guess that is nice.

SA is so far a regression in terms of difficulty either way, since dw marathon is not a thing anymore, and planets are still unaffected by presets, if you want to talk about "gamey" complexity.
It's no accusation ! I thought i remember correctly when you said it to me on discord that Vulcanus was your prefered planet. You even showed your early belt setup and ask if someone had a better one and the several ways of solving gleba were discussed.

I think SA adds a lot of additionnal complexity, with quality more than with spoilage as dealing with spoilage is not optionnal, but also not as difficult as the math involved for finding the most efficient way of making quality things.

Re: They need to rename Gleba to Bartleby

Posted: Sun Jan 26, 2025 9:03 pm
by aka13
Oh, okay then. Yeah, systems-wise SA brings a lot of new fun stuff, totally agreed.
And yeah, youremember correctly, I did perefer vulc, and left gleba for the end. I didn't like the continuos flow stuff, absolutely.

Re: They need to rename Gleba to Bartleby

Posted: Fri Jan 31, 2025 4:16 am
by Jay_Raynor
XT-248 wrote: Sun Jan 26, 2025 5:34 am When I initially tested some defense strategies on Gleba, I found that very little to nothing about defending against biters/worms was applicable to Gleba natives.

A defense perimeter of turrets and walls? Stomper walks over the wall and potentially becomes aggressive due to the presence of turrets.

Strafer spawns wriggler on top of the turrets and, as the namesake implies, strafe instead of moving in close.

I didn't ask for new enemies to act the same way as Nauvis fauna. I accepted and dealt with Vulcanis Demolishers of various sizes, for instance.

Yet, at the same time, Gleba's fauna is different enough that new players will have problems adjusting after Nauvis.
No, you want them to behave same as Nauvis from that checklist. You don't have complaints about Demolishers because you don't defend your factory from them. Vulcanus is all-offense. Nauvis teaches you what the basic tools are, how to keep them running, managing enemy spawners in the factory area to stay ahead of evolution, placement of defenses for interlocking fire... Do you even landmine? It's okay to be frustrated that you're struggling with a solution to a particular Factorio problem. You used the blueprints of others to facilitate a speedrun, so I'm not sure why you don't just simply look up Gleba defense strategies.
I am not mixing those two kind of players as if they are the same kind of players.

"Introducing" new Gleba mechanics is all dumped almost back-to-back, giving new players little time to adjust and learn the mechanics.

Speedrunner has to deal with the Gleba factory potentially failing and costing them the attempt, as time is a limited currency. See my next post.

When did I mix the two categories of players up? I am asking because I clarified several times that they aren't the same, and I want to improve my communication.
You're switching between them often enough that I have a difficult time parsing specifics between the two paradigms. I get the impression that you're making a complaint about one under the guise of the other. I don't think you're doing so intentionally, just that it's how it appears to me.
What inconsistency? You made it sound like I played Space Age for 2k hours when I didn't make that claim.

I responded to skepticism about how much of an 'expert' I am with Factorio by pointing out that I have thousands of hours of gameplay with Factorio.

I did not mention how much time I spent with Space Age, partially because there isn't a reliable way to track time spent playing with Space Age. Steam treats Factorio 1.1, Factorio 2.0 without Space Age, and Factorio 2.0 with Space Age as a singular number of total hours spent.

Since its release date, I have had at most a hundred hours of free time to play Space Age at my best guess, and even then, I didn't spend all of that time on Space Age.

Those statements are not mutually exclusive, and thus, there is consistency.
You complain that it simply takes too much time to master an expansion that effectively or factually more than doubles the content of Factorio that's only been public since late October. You spent a few thousand hours mastering vanilla and you're complaining because you can't master a part of this massive expansion on your specific terms in whatever weekend time you can cobble together in what amounts to three months now. That's an easy inconsistency to identify.
It doesn't matter why or how the blueprint/factory failed. The point that I am still trying to get you to understand is that when it does, it fails. It is frustrating that I spent hours doing whatever it was at the time only to find something failed or not working and not knowing why. See my next post.

Then I started to follow the trail of how something failed (no agricultural science, no flux, the particularities don't matter here), and it turns out that something went wrong with the Gleba Factory. Production charts only show what was being produced but not the particularises in how it failed or ceased producing.

The damage was already done by then, and I tried to revert to an earlier save game. However, I still couldn't find the cause for the failure as the earlier Gleba save game continued well past the fail timeframe without incident.

That is not the first or last time I have had to diagnose what went wrong with Gleba without data or even the only situation I have encountered, but it illustrates that dealing with Gleba is a bottomless well of dissatisfaction.
I tried empathizing. I offered to look at your blueprints. Hell, I'd be willing to look at your save. But you seem hellbent on complaining and not learning. Good luck with your speedrun, though I doubt you'll ever get it at this rate.
Let's review why I made that flippancy comment and what I was trying to do.
No. Let's not.

You decided it was okay to stoop to personal insults. I don't particularly care why. I gave you an offer that I'd look past such conduct, but perhaps I too heavily implied rather than specified that said offer required the minor concession of the point regarding personal time and it didn't even require public acknowledgement from you but simply keeping quiet about it.

You won't succeed justifying your comments in this regard because you can't. I recommend a more constructive use of your time involves focusing more on those many competing priorities you mentioned earlier, because you show no interest in a productive discussion. You spend an awful amount of time complaining about wasting time to people offering help.