Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly
Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:51 pm
BlueTemplar wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:46 pm I don't see it. Please edit your screenshot to highlight it?
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BlueTemplar wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:46 pm I don't see it. Please edit your screenshot to highlight it?
Weren't flame turrets designed to be in one line with other turrets? They even were made 3x2 for convenient pipe connection, when they are in this line. So if they damage turrets, that are in same line with them - they are clearly not working as intended.Ranakastrasz wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:54 pm I don't see theissuerange violation there. The center of the flame patch is on the edge, and it's AOE expanded to hit the other turrets.
Yea, I'm just point out that technically speaking it is working as intended, but the intended is wrong.Acid_Burn9 wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:59 pm
Weren't flame turrets designed to be in one line with other turrets? They even were made 3x2 for convenient pipe connection, when they are in this line. So if they damage turrets, that are in same line with them - they are clearly not working as intended.
Well. Maybe you are right. But the issue remains. So all we can do is wait for fix now.Ranakastrasz wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 8:02 pmYea, I'm just point out that technically speaking it is working as intended, but the intended is wrong.Acid_Burn9 wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:59 pm
Weren't flame turrets designed to be in one line with other turrets? They even were made 3x2 for convenient pipe connection, when they are in this line. So if they damage turrets, that are in same line with them - they are clearly not working as intended.
The minimum range at maximum angle left or right, plus the flame AOE is enough to damage nearby turrets. This, obviously should not be the case.
I was just trying to figure out if it was violating the actual, displayed range. I mean, throw a grenade at max range. It will damage things outside of the range because of it's AOE, but you still can't throw it further than max range. I couldn't tell if it was just that at minimum range it caused problems, or if it was actually ignoring the minimum range/angle because of target leading.
Hmm, I've never tried doing it (EDIT : and packing them so densely, my screenshot is actually an outlier), but I see what you mean. But only the developers would know...Acid_Burn9 wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:59 pmWeren't flame turrets designed to be in one line with other turrets? They even were made 3x2 for convenient pipe connection, when they are in this line. So if they damage turrets, that are in same line with them - they are clearly not working as intended.Ranakastrasz wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:54 pm I don't see theissuerange violation there. The center of the flame patch is on the edge, and it's AOE expanded to hit the other turrets.
Here is my save (cant upload here files bigger, than 15MB). Most intense attacks happening in top left corner of the map and a bit lower.posila wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:47 am Can you upload your saves, please? I am going to disable target leading for flamethrower turrets for 0.17.3, but your saves will be helpfull when researching how to make it better.
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if{no.player.build.sctructures.here=true}[shoot.here=true]Still lead the target but check that the firing position is within the turret's aiming box. If it isn't snap it to the nearest point along the line between biter and the "bad" firing position that is inside the aiming box. Or be lazy and snap it to the closest point inside aiming area.posila wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 9:47 am Can you upload your saves, please? I am going to disable target leading for flamethrower turrets for 0.17.3, but your saves will be helpfull when researching how to make it better.
Pretty sure we established that it never violated the aim box, just that the aim box was always too close to the turret.credomane wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:53 pm
Still lead the target but check that the firing position is within the turret's aiming box. If it isn't snap it to the nearest point along the line between biter and the "bad" firing position that is inside the aiming box. Or be lazy and snap it to the closest point inside aiming area.
My base is gonna need some serious flame turret rework. I have my turrets spaced a ways back so they cover a lot of the wall. With this target leading mine are gonna take out everything. Even if target leading was in the aiming box. lol.
Probably because its a stream weapon like the new spitters, so it made sense to have it lead it's targets too.pistols39 wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:36 pm this is an interesting topic.
i agree that adding logic to detect outer defense is OTT.
Is aim leading really necessary? i thought the fact that flame turrets were slightly behind the first biter(s) were to balance them out. if they can predict where biters are going to be then is this too overpowering? it would be interesting to understand the reason for it's inclusion.
I agree that it's worth considering.pistols39 wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:36 pm Is aim leading really necessary? i thought the fact that flame turrets were slightly behind the first biter(s) were to balance them out. if they can predict where biters are going to be then is this too overpowering? it would be interesting to understand the reason for it's inclusion.
Artillery does not automatically fire on mobile forces. Just spawners or worms in it's "Short" range. And probably structures for multiplayer, but i've never seen that myself.BlueTemplar wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:46 pm Well, it's not like they didn't work pretty well in 0.16 without the leading...
I agree that it's worth considering.pistols39 wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:36 pm Is aim leading really necessary? i thought the fact that flame turrets were slightly behind the first biter(s) were to balance them out. if they can predict where biters are going to be then is this too overpowering? it would be interesting to understand the reason for it's inclusion.
0.17 Fire leading makes them less distinct from instant shot Gun/Laser (and homing shot 0.16 Laser)...
(Artillery being kind of in a category of its own? Does it even fire on biters/spitters ?)
Yup. Artillery auto-targeting works only on spawners and worms.BlueTemplar wrote: Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:08 pm Oh, right, it only autofires on the expansion parties once they start morphing into buildings...
From the screenshots you can easily see thats exactly the problem. If the flamethrower is aiming at a point P on the edge of the target area then it can also damage stuff at a maximum distance r outside of the target area, where r is the AOE/splash-radius of the fire. However the player expects stuff outside of the target area to be safe. The easiest fix is probably to make the actual internal target area by r smaller on all sides, than the shown area. That way the turret shows a damage area, rather than a target area. If you don't want to make the range of the turret smaller compared to 0.16, you can compensate by increasing the maximum range by r, but not the minimum range.Ranakastrasz wrote: Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:54 pm The center of the flame patch is on the edge, and it's AOE expanded to hit the other turrets.