Factorio Forums

ptx0 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:39 pm if deleting mod-settings.dat doesn't help then the only thing that worked for me was to download the actual seablock pack zip from this thread and extract it manually.

Bilka wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:03 pm I hope you mean 2020, not 2018

Medium9 wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 6:40 pm I updated all mods I already had and disabled any that weren't compatible, and downloaded SB with all its dependencies via the ingame mod manager.

Chapeau-Claque wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 7:22 am 0.4 mod list changes as I can see:

Added: Bobs Ores
Removed: Nuclear Fuel

For Bobs Ores I have no comment but why was Nuclear Fuel removed?

Gentaei wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:36 pm Is there any hope of adressing the nightmare of energy production in early game?

Algae 1 now gives 5 brown algae per craft as well . Since you do not need it in your powerplant it gets put in a chest and gets "voided" by shooting it...

Algae 2 is insanly energy inefficient. For 0.5 Charcoal you need more than 1.1MW while you only get 2MW from the Charcoal. Net gain for it is less than 900kW... Algae 1 can do it by only taking ~700kW and giving you about 1.2MW.

It would help algae 2 a lot to reduce the amount of mineral water that it needs. Otherwise its only a wasted tech....

Arboritums are also not very efficient. Yes you can set them up early and a tree should always be close to spawn. But same here. For 0.5 Charcoal (2MW) you also need way more than 700kW to do it. Also a lot of space compared to alge 1. In addition it takes Steel and a lot more components making it expensive.

Since there are no other options to produce energy early on you will run on alge 1 for a very very long time. Till you hit fuel oil and making it out of Binafran and mk1 Farms. Also Solid fuel from it seems viable. Everything else seems either horrible ineffiecient or takes more space than algae 1.

ptx0 wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:07 pm

Gentaei wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:36 pm Is there any hope of adressing the nightmare of energy production in early game?

Algae 1 now gives 5 brown algae per craft as well . Since you do not need it in your powerplant it gets put in a chest and gets "voided" by shooting it...

Algae 2 is insanly energy inefficient. For 0.5 Charcoal you need more than 1.1MW while you only get 2MW from the Charcoal. Net gain for it is less than 900kW... Algae 1 can do it by only taking ~700kW and giving you about 1.2MW.

It would help algae 2 a lot to reduce the amount of mineral water that it needs. Otherwise its only a wasted tech....

Arboritums are also not very efficient. Yes you can set them up early and a tree should always be close to spawn. But same here. For 0.5 Charcoal (2MW) you also need way more than 700kW to do it. Also a lot of space compared to alge 1. In addition it takes Steel and a lot more components making it expensive.

Since there are no other options to produce energy early on you will run on alge 1 for a very very long time. Till you hit fuel oil and making it out of Binafran and mk1 Farms. Also Solid fuel from it seems viable. Everything else seems either horrible ineffiecient or takes more space than algae 1.

i mean, to me, if you 'fix' this problem, is no longer Seablock. i could be wrong.

Gentaei wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:14 pm

ptx0 wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 6:07 pm

Gentaei wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:36 pm Is there any hope of adressing the nightmare of energy production in early game?

Algae 1 now gives 5 brown algae per craft as well . Since you do not need it in your powerplant it gets put in a chest and gets "voided" by shooting it...

Algae 2 is insanly energy inefficient. For 0.5 Charcoal you need more than 1.1MW while you only get 2MW from the Charcoal. Net gain for it is less than 900kW... Algae 1 can do it by only taking ~700kW and giving you about 1.2MW.

It would help algae 2 a lot to reduce the amount of mineral water that it needs. Otherwise its only a wasted tech....

Arboritums are also not very efficient. Yes you can set them up early and a tree should always be close to spawn. But same here. For 0.5 Charcoal (2MW) you also need way more than 700kW to do it. Also a lot of space compared to alge 1. In addition it takes Steel and a lot more components making it expensive.

Since there are no other options to produce energy early on you will run on alge 1 for a very very long time. Till you hit fuel oil and making it out of Binafran and mk1 Farms. Also Solid fuel from it seems viable. Everything else seems either horrible ineffiecient or takes more space than algae 1.

i mean, to me, if you 'fix' this problem, is no longer Seablock. i could be wrong.

Problem here ist simple. Tech that you reasearch is worse than that you start with. So why build it in the first place? The only reason to research them is to progress in the tech tree to get better ways to make landfill and plates.

Gentaei wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:14 pm Problem here ist simple. Tech that you reasearch is worse than that you start with. So why build it in the first place? The only reason to research them is to progress in the tech tree to get better ways to make landfill and plates.

kenlon wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:54 pm The addition of brown algae to the basic algae farming recipe has utterly wrecked my power generation. If you are going to update to .18, be prepared for this!

Gentaei wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:14 pm Problem here ist simple. Tech that you reasearch is worse than that you start with. So why build it in the first place? The only reason to research them is to progress in the tech tree to get better ways to make landfill and plates.

The problem is that there was already a good tradeoff between Green Algae 1 and Green Algae 2 - 1 was much less building efficient, requiring much more real estate and resources to set up, with the advantage of not needing to have a mineralized water source running. Now that you cannot use Green Algae 1 in any long term way due to the inability to dispose of brown algae, early-to-mid game power production is much, much messier.

If there was a way to dispose of the Brown Algae en-masse, even if it's just some sort of dedicated burn pit that would destroy it without producing anything, it would go a long way to making this change less terrible.

zoigo wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:55 pm I am ok with the change. Algae 1 was too easy(and it used to be harder a while ago), I never did move to Algae 2 before, today i did.

kenlon wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:06 pm

zoigo wrote: Tue Feb 18, 2020 4:55 pm I am ok with the change. Algae 1 was too easy(and it used to be harder a while ago), I never did move to Algae 2 before, today i did.

I made use of a mix of Algae 1 and Algae 2, with a setup where I had enough charcoal production from Algae 2 to consume my excess crushed stone (from things like geode washing->crystal dust) while having baseline power production provided by 100.8 MW self-contained power plants (28 boiler 2s and associated steam plants, fed from moderately ridiculous Algae 1 farms.)

Because green algae is one of the primary power sources for Seablock, this change to force the production of unusable amounts of Brown alongside the Green is a bad thing. For non-seablock angel's, it's perfectly reasonable.

@trainwreck: Another option to handle this would be to readd the old Green 1 recipe and rename the new one to something like "Mixed Algae", leaving both options available.