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railway placement

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 6:49 pm
by Alukat
Image

Hey,

trying atm to build a factory based on trains and without using transport belts, there's one big issue, as can be seen in the picture.
the railway placement allows only to go:
a.) railway > "short" inserter > chest > "short" inserter > factory > long handed inserter > railway
b.) railway > "short" inserter > chest > "short" inserter > factory > "short" inserter > chest > long handed inserter > railway

would it be possible to make the railway placement more precise, so that:
railway > "short" inserter > chest > "short" inserter > factory > "short" inserter > chest > "short" inserter > railway
becomes possible?

note: ""short" inserter" refers to inserter, fast inserter, filter inserter, stack inserter.

Re: railway placement

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:06 pm
by mattj256
A single piece of straight rail takes up 2x2 squares on the grid.

As far I know it's never been possible to place a straight rail misaligned to the 2x2 grid. (If this were allowed you could have two sections of track that are impossible to connect up.)

I don't imagine this will ever be changed. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong?

Re: railway placement

Posted: Wed Jul 06, 2016 8:27 pm
by ssilk
I add this to viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19953 New types of rails (curves, s-curves ...)

Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:06 pm
by ondrii
TL;DR
Rails dimension is 2x2 and we have to skip even number of fields to place next (parallel) tracks. Why it is not possible to place next track with odd number of fields between two parallel tracks?
What ?
For comparison Assembling Machine dimension is 3x3 but we can place next one with one field between them (or any other odd or even number of fields) just like on screen below
factorio 2.png
factorio 2.png (374.22 KiB) Viewed 4921 times
So we can move items from one Assembling Machine to chest and then put it in the next Assembling Machine like here
Factorio 3.png
Factorio 3.png (162.8 KiB) Viewed 4921 times
But when I want to do something similar with trains on two parallel tracks I cannot do this because always there is even number of fields between two tracks. If we could place rails with odd number of fields between them (in this example 3 fields - 1 for inserter, 1 for chest, 1 for inserter).
You can see example of problem below
factorio.png
factorio.png (1.27 MiB) Viewed 4921 times
Why ?
Many times I (and probably other players too) want to have separate train networks but need to exchange items between those networks (one network as a main bus and many smaller networks with production). Then it will be possible to have separated networks but with possibility to exchange items through chests.

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:49 pm
by Jap2.0
It might be nice, but there are a few issues, and some ways to get around the current issues (see my post on your other thread), for example, what if you try to place tracks with a 1 tile overlap?

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:50 pm
by nljr
The work-around is a mod for larger containers or longer fast inserters.

Honestly, I think rail layouts would be much more delicate to build with this change.

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:01 pm
by ondrii
@nijr, yeah, mod with larger containers is some kind of solution.
I also used long inserters (pros is I can use two rows of inserters) in some cases but there is a problem when I have to filter what is exchanged - there is no long filter inserters and no stack long inserters :(
There is also solution with using transport belts (inserter, two transport belts, inserter, chest, inserter) but then transport belt is next bottleneck (when I start to use stack inserters).

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:21 pm
by impetus maximus
Zavian wrote:Rather than use chests in the middle load into something 2 wide like a car or a truck tank.
Image

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:48 pm
by JohnyDL
Isn't it just part of the puzzle to have it snap to the 2x2 grid rather than the 1x1? What are the knock on effects to things like stations and signalling? Does rail have to become a 2x1 item in order to line up with curves?

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:20 pm
by Zavian
Well existing curves etc all align to the 2x2 rail grid. Even Stations always build on a 2x2 grid. Atm there is no way to get build a curve that would connect to any rail on an odd offset. I'm not saying that the devs couldn't solve that, but it wouldn't be as simple as letting you build one tile left of right. At this stage it would be a major rework.

Also if you are willing to use mods, bobs inserters will give more inserter options that let you grab from a chest at distance 1, and deposit in a chest at distance 2. (You can even do that with stack inserters).

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:16 am
by Jap2.0
JohnyDL wrote:Isn't it just part of the puzzle to have it snap to the 2x2 grid rather than the 1x1? What are the knock on effects to things like stations and signalling? Does rail have to become a 2x1 item in order to line up with curves?
Yes.

Zavian wrote:Well existing curves etc all align to the 2x2 rail grid. Even Stations always build on a 2x2 grid. Atm there is no way to get build a curve that would connect to any rail on an odd offset. I'm not saying that the devs couldn't solve that, but it wouldn't be as simple as letting you build one tile left of right. At this stage it would be a major rework.

Also if you are willing to use mods, bobs inserters will give more inserter options that let you grab from a chest at distance 1, and deposit in a chest at distance 2. (You can even do that with stack inserters).
Also yes. I was just going to say this :).

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:02 am
by Lav
You could also use loaders, they take 2 tiles and two loaders (one unloading, another loading) fit nicely into a standard 4-tile wide gap between parallel tracks.

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:41 am
by ondrii
impetus maximus wrote:
Zavian wrote:Rather than use chests in the middle load into something 2 wide like a car or a truck tank.
Image
WOW, I didn't imagine that I will get answer to my issue so quick!
Why I didn't come up with car/tank idea earlier? :( This solves my problem and my initial idea/suggestion seems invalid now. Thanks a lot!

I know that there are mods that could help me (like bigger containers or loaders) but now I want to play vanilla version (before 0.15 I've played with Bob Mods) so this solution will be used when I will be bored with vanilla and again try to play with mods.

Thanks a lot for inspirations.

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 8:57 am
by bobingabout
Long handed inserters?

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 1:15 pm
by Koub

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:48 am
by PacifyerGrey
Here you go
The only downside you can't blueprint it
w-w-w.jpg
w-w-w.jpg (113.24 KiB) Viewed 4777 times
However I would really appreciate 2x3 storage building. It would open up so many nice opportunities!

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:30 pm
by Jap2.0
PacifyerGrey wrote:Here you go
The only downside you can't blueprint it
w-w-w.jpg
However I would really appreciate 2x3 storage building. It would open up so many nice opportunities!
Cool, less latency as well.

straight rail position.

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 9:24 am
by zggz
Now we set rails with step 2 tiles. Often we need step 1 like red on picture.
Screenshot_1.jpg
Screenshot_1.jpg (40.2 KiB) Viewed 4154 times

Sorry for my English.

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:33 pm
by Koub
[Koub] Merged into older topic with same suggestion.
More subjects on rail position/shape here : viewtopic.php?f=80&t=19953
and here : viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39007
Also, I think I remember a dev saying "No". I'll add the link if/when I find it.
Found it : viewtopic.php?t=57277

Re: Parallel train tracks with odd number of fields between them

Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:59 pm
by ggrnd0
PacifyerGrey wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:48 am
Here you go
The only downside you can't blueprint it
Will be in 0.17
PacifyerGrey wrote:
Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:48 am
w-w-w.jpg
However I would really appreciate 2x3 storage building. It would open up so many nice opportunities!
1x2 enought