Factorio Forums

Panzerknacker wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:40 pm What Steam is going to do depends entirely on Wube, not on Steam

Wrong, because I'm on Windows 7 and literally cannot run Steam anymore. This was Steam's choice and not Wube. I dont understand why either Wube or Steam dropped support for it when afaik Linux has a smaller user share.

In either case, the game thankfully still runs via direct DL from the site, and that will be the version I keep using

Danjen wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 2:43 pmI dont understand why either Wube or Steam dropped support for it when afaik Linux has a smaller user share.

Windows as OS family is lacking in backwards compatibility department. Not only because of being closed-source... if it's officially down'ed by its manufacturer - it's down'ed.
Linux OS family is basically build-your-own-OS where backwards compatibility is a matter of effort and effort only.
Also, Steam Deck alone ensures that there are millions of Linux running devices dedicated to gaming.
Welcome to Year 2024.

Danjen wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 2:43 pm

Panzerknacker wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:40 pm What Steam is going to do depends entirely on Wube, not on Steam

Wrong, because I'm on Windows 7 and literally cannot run Steam anymore. This was Steam's choice and not Wube. I dont understand why either Wube or Steam dropped support for it when afaik Linux has a smaller user share.

In either case, the game thankfully still runs via direct DL from the site, and that will be the version I keep using

Of course you also understand I mean within the context of Factorio. Steam itself dropping support for older Windows versions is another thing imo and ofc out of Wube's control. I also run Factorio on machines with Windows Vista through the standalone download which is great.

EustaceCS wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 3:34 pm

Danjen wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 2:43 pmI dont understand why either Wube or Steam dropped support for it when afaik Linux has a smaller user share.

Windows as OS family is lacking in backwards compatibility department. Not only because of being closed-source... if it's officially down'ed by its manufacturer - it's down'ed.

I couldn't disgaree more. Windows has incredible backwards compatibility... certainly much better than Linux's. Windows 7 will run many modern programs with no problem. On the flip side, you can run 25+ year old software on modern Windows. That's probably some of the best backwards compatibility in computers today.

I couldn't disgaree more. Windows has incredible backwards compatibility... certainly much better than Linux's. Windows 7 will run many modern programs with no problem. On the flip side, you can run 25+ year old software on modern Windows. That's probably some of the best backwards compatibility in computers today.

Yes, that's the reason, why some 40ish year old bad design decisions still cause security issues

Holywar provocation. Or not. Let's assume it's not.
Since we've strayed too much from original theme, maybe people-in-power can lend us a hand and move this sub-thread to more appropriate place?

NineNine wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:19 pmWindows 7 will run many modern programs with no problem.

Yes, many legacy versions of modern programs. Which do not depend on DirectX 12 or other Win10+ exclusives.
Which is not much.

NineNine wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:19 pmOn the flip side, you can run 25+ year old software on modern Windows.

Run me some StarForce protected videogame on Win10. By legit means. Yes. Do it. And you'll make few millions of gamers happy.
Or you know what? I still have a copy of scanner software which was bundled with my vintage UMAX scanner. Make it work on Win10. Show your skills. The kicker is, it barely works in Win7, you know... because it needs updated drivers, you know...

After all, you probably know what you're talking about.

As of native Linux applications (which you in all your wisdom avoided in your speech) even in worst case scenario I can grab few old libraries and be fine wit that.

EustaceCS wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 7:50 pm

NineNine wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 5:19 pmOn the flip side, you can run 25+ year old software on modern Windows.

Run me some StarForce protected videogame on Win10. By legit means. Yes. Do it. And you'll make few millions of gamers happy.
Or you know what? I still have a copy of scanner software which was bundled with my vintage UMAX scanner. Make it work on Win10. Show your skills. The kicker is, it barely works in Win7, you know... because it needs updated drivers, you know...

After all, you probably know what you're talking about.

Here's Windows 10 running Powerpoint 97.

EustaceCS wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 7:50 pm As of native Linux applications (which you in all your wisdom avoided in your speech) even in worst case scenario I can grab few old libraries and be fine wit that.

Cool. What Linux program from 1997 (with a GUI) can I run on my up to date version of Linux Mint? Because I tried to install the oldest version of LibreOffice, I could find (from 2011) and this is what happened.

NineNine wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 11:12 pmHere's Windows 10 running Powerpoint 97.

Nice StarForce. Now, do scanner software. AstraSlim SE.

NineNine wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 11:12 pm Cool. What Linux program from 1997 (with a GUI) can I run on my up to date version of Linux Mint? Because I tried to install the oldest version of LibreOffice, I could find (from 2011) and this is what happened.

Can you pretty please be consistent in your stream of consciousness? This is not even application with GUI you're installing (on top of year fiasco - and requirement-out-of-thine-air to use GUI and only GUI having application).
Besides,

EustaceCS wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 3:34 pmLinux OS family is basically build-your-own-OS where backwards compatibility is a matter of effort and effort only.

point your OS at needed libraries (or otherwise make this specific session prefer libraries from folder with antique versions), extract the package - and you're likely good to go.
Here, play with aniquities.
I'll play legendary Dungeon while dust settles. Surprisingly or not, it didn't even demanded any libraries. And dpkg even installed it properly.
*sigh*
IT childhood which I never had...

Danjen wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2024 2:43 pm

Panzerknacker wrote: Sat Oct 05, 2024 8:40 pm What Steam is going to do depends entirely on Wube, not on Steam

Wrong, because I'm on Windows 7 and literally cannot run Steam anymore. This was Steam's choice and not Wube. I dont understand why either Wube or Steam dropped support for it when afaik Linux has a smaller user share.

In either case, the game thankfully still runs via direct DL from the site, and that will be the version I keep using

That's probably due to the framework, that Steam may be using internally to develop the client, sometimes those frameworks deprecate legacy ways of doing the things, while you may see Windows not changing much internally, it's actually doing, the GDI has been overhauled like 3 times already in the Windows history, sometimes the frameworks do have some if branching to use legacy OS syscalls or apis, and modern syscalls/apis, but the more branches the more code the framework has to maintain.

So after a while frameworks drop that OS version for good, to keep code maintainable, and as soon as they drop it, almost every app that uses that framework (such as Steam) has to do the same for, the same reason, because maybe Steam is not using all new framework features, but that framework is getting security and bugfixes, and Steam can't stick with the old version just to keep old OS support.


Trust me I was a Windows XP lover, I remember back in 2014, moving to Linux again, just because I didn't want to use Windows 7 XD, I jumped directly to Windows 10

I'm too old for that Windows vs Linux debates, so I have a philosophy, "use the right tool for the job", Linux for Server & dev, and Windows for gaming and multimedia... that doesn't mean you can't have a Windows Server, or use linux to play, but are not typically the "right tool for the job"

PD: I say "The framework" because I have no idea of what Steam may be using, but tbh, it's probably using something, almost nobody writes native desktop apps without frameworks or libs.... trust me I created some legacy C apps with pure WIN32 api for GUI elements, it was pure PAIN, HELL, and suffering

Fun Fact: Microsoft didn't release Windows 9, because a lot of those libs and frameworks had it branches such as if(strpos(os,"win 9")) { ... } elseif(strpos(os,"win nt")){} else if()...

PD2: If you are curious just read all the workarounds that libSDL (used by Factorio) uses to deal with all different OS and OS versions, for the graphics... it's a lot of code to maintain, https://github.com/libsdl-org/SDL/tree/main/src/video