Yuoki Industries - Informations, Suggestions, Questions

[YuokiTani]

Btw, i decided to use this mod after i see your video, i want to use that cute train !

next version a few more ! -> video

Remember, Yuoki trains are shorter. All designs for vanilla locomotives and wagons need to be redesigned.

yes, this effects mostly only the first cargo-wagon - and you can still have up to 4 inserter per cargo-wagon.

i suggest a little change of playstyle ... and not using trains as longer belts but reduce belts to min and use more trains. like in real world i suggest move the cargo-wagons to target and get them time to load ... in the time between you can drive to another outpost and collect the filled cargo-wagons or bring back empty. you can't load/unload in drive-by because for inserters the train must stand. using cargo-wagons with low inventory-slots allows you to wait until it's filled and move the train to get next wagon filled. for automatic trains you can use different wagon for different routes so it's easy to see what trains comes in or drive by.
i have my base surrounded with a rail-line and use the red-steam to travel in the corners, to different ore-deposit etc. and for more challengeing i use mostly 1 track and some crosses to switch locomotive direction.

but at the end of course it's only driveing a locomotive and gives fun for 3-5 minutes - before you go back to hard work and laying out your factory or defend the base.

[waduk]

@Fatmice : OK, got it.
@Neotix : Yes, I know it's shorter, fatmice already cover that in the video. But thanks to remind me anyway. I plan to make separate station for the cute train.

OK, thanks guys for the help.

Edit :
Ooh, Yuoki post a new one ! Can't handle the cuteness ! This gonna be so much fun to drive around.

[MantisShrimp]

advanced machine frame

Is it a bug that I can't make Advanced Machine Frames in the Fast Assembler? Also, spelling.

[Fatmice]

It's Yuoki's. All mispells are right

As for the fast assembler, I think it has to do with the number of slots. Fast assembler only has 5 slots while that wire needs six, so it's a simple change in the prototype.

[YuokiTani]

It's Yuoki's. All mispells are right
As for the fast assembler, I think it has to do with the number of slots. Fast assembler only has 5 slots while that wire needs six, so it's a simple change in the prototype.

- changed, not the mispells ^^

new version just in time with factorio 0.12.5

Version 0.2.34 - Notes

Always Backup your Savegame before Update !
- still to not break save-games - old turrets change on remove

changes
- some graphics
- old bunkers break into new smart-versions
- reorganisation tabs and recipe-lines
- all liquid-handling moved into extra tab

! attention
- ground floor tiles and trains moved into Addon YI-Railways, you will lost these items without the AddOn

new
- stage-2 green modul
- 2 brown moduls
- added tab for refine & liquids

[Vin]

Thanks for all the new stuff Yuoki! Even just starting a new game, the tab re-arrangement is pretty nice. Looking forward to checking out all the new graphics and possibly trains.

[JohnDoe]

The AQE-Accumulator is very difficult to place with the UI almost obscuring half of the screen. Can we have shorter item descriptions?

[YuokiTani]

The AQE-Accumulator is very difficult to place with the UI almost obscuring half of the screen. Can we have shorter item descriptions?

No, because if you update to factorio 0.12.5 you can see the Dev-Stuff have fixed this after a very long time and coded multiline-support.
(because this is working now i have activated all the old long-text descriptions)

[orzelek]

The AQE-Accumulator is very difficult to place with the UI almost obscuring half of the screen. Can we have shorter item descriptions?

No, because if you update to factorio 0.12.5 you can see the Dev-Stuff have fixed this after a very long time and coded multiline-support.
(because this is working now i have activated all the old long-text descriptions)

I'm not sure about this.

They did fix the right hand panel - but long descriptions seem to still make tooltips overly long for me.
So it's not fully fixed in a way.

As for descriptions - some of them still need a "what is it" part not only the "funny text" part

[YuokiTani]

today i'am the asshole ...
now and in future no written documentation from me ! - ingame descriptions stay useless if i write these.
so feel free to be the good guy and make some documentation or help people.

beside that - new version 0.2.35 - Yeah ! (again )

Version 0.2.35 - Notes
Always Backup your Savegame before Update !

changes
- substation has a new graphic
- defense is split into 2 lines - turrets and walls
- the crystal-accumulator is back as Quantrinum-Accumulator (3x3) also new graphic
- recipes of stage-2 modules changed
- all items have a request-default now (most useful change ^^)

new
- 3 new pink modules
- +1 repair-tool, +1 work-tool
- 2 recipes to support crafting the Quantrinum-Accumulator

- all more or less minor changes, but for me it improves the game experience - also after 1 year playing factorio i discovered a use for pink-modules lol. you should try the YI-Pink-Modules they are now really useful. (hint: into mining-drills)
- tools more for fun and if you don't know what todo with quantrinum - also the chance to honor some people
- Quantrinum-Accumulator, Stage-3 Module shows a possible YI-Endgame-Content. At this point steps PFW in and starts

Quantriunum-Accumulator (old Crystal) + Substation / new recipes and how to find them

[sword2410]

Could I suggest a rebalancing of the conversion in Cimota Restructor ?, conversion values do not coincide with reality, with the intention to make it more realistic would be nice if you could study this possibility?

[YuokiTani]

Could I suggest a rebalancing of the conversion in Cimota Restructor ?, conversion values do not coincide with reality, with the intention to make it more realistic would be nice if you could study this possibility?

you forgot to write down the suggested conversion-values.

[Fatmice]

Could I suggest a rebalancing of the conversion in Cimota Restructor ?, conversion values do not coincide with reality, with the intention to make it more realistic would be nice if you could study this possibility?

There is nothing realistic about Yuoki Industries, so why would rebalancing around realism makes any sense at all much less the very idea of such proposition?

[Cooolaid]

@ YuokiTani

Your mod keeps getting better and better. Each day I fall more in love with your mod than the previous day.
Every day I tell people I know or meet to download your mod, because I feel this mod should be in everyone's mod folder....Lmao

I know i know a bit corny, what can I say....
thanks YuokiTani for all your valuable time and hard work so we can enjoy this game.

Sorry, I feel a little emotional today....Hahahahahaha....

[sword2410]

At this version of the mod, the conversion table is this:

Matter > 1 M-A2 Unicomp

20 coal
20 Copper Ore
100 Ancient data fragment
10 F7-Material Chunk
20 Iron Ore
30 Pressed dry mud ball
100 Slag
20 Stone
70 Toxic Dust
10 N4-Material Chunk
10 Light Oil
20 Raw Wood
10 Heavy Oil
9 Lubricant
10 Pretroleum Gas

1 M-2A > Matter

20 Coal
20 Copper ore
10 F7-Material Chunk
20 Iron Ore
8 Plastic Bar
20 Stone
10 N4-Material Chunk
20 Wood
10 Crude Oil

The suggested table would look more realistic, based on the approximate density of the materials:

To 1 M-A2 Unicomp

53 Coal
13 Copper Ore
1200 Ancient data fragment
10 F7-Material Chunk
15 Iron Ore
343 Pressed dry mud ball
600 Slag
44 Stone
429 Toxic Dust
10 N4-Material Chunk
400 Light Oil
120 Raw Wood
150 Heavy Oil
200 Lubricant
303 Pretroleum Gas
123 Petroleo

1 M-2A to raw material

53 Coal
13 Copper Ore
10 F7-Material Chunk
15 Iron Ore
44 Stone
10 N4-Material Chunk
120 Raw Wood
123 Petroleo

That would assuming 100% efficiency in the conversion process.

You could also implement efficiency levels for the conversion, which is conducting research unblock them.

I hope that my contribution has been positive in your excellent MOD.

Thank you for your attention.

[Fatmice]

This list is BS. Not only are values inflated, they are vanilla value biased. These values not only allow for more compression but also inflated exchanges. And what is the basis for making assumptions about "Alien Data Fragment" or "F7-Material Chunk" or "Toxic Dust"?

Yuoki doesn't do tech or unlocks. That has been and always will be, forever.

[sword2410]

This list is BS. Not only are values inflated, they are vanilla value biased. These values not only allow for more compression but also inflated exchanges. And what is the basis for making assumptions about "Alien Data Fragment" or "F7-Material Chunk" or "Toxic Dust"?

Yuoki doesn't do tech or unlocks. That has been and always will be, forever.

I Use a real factor, the density of known materials and with that you can perform a conversion of matter that comes close to reality.

With the density of unknown materials and N4 F7 I make an approximate guess based on their hardness, use in the technologies and the conversion rate already existed.

To calculate the density of Alien Data Fragment I do guess based on the amount of dirt needed for extraction and the result obtained.

Youki does incorporate research to unlock F12 + Defense Systems.

To continue the tradition of factorio would be interesting to Youki technology also be unlocked with research.

Probably in the future technology of conversion of matter to be invented, but in the meantime I take the liberty of assuming that if there is such a device, it is likely that the density of matter has a great importance when it comes to transmute another material.

[MantisShrimp]

...

I personally think that realism for realism sake is a bit ridiculous. It generally complicates things for absolutely no reason. What you're suggesting for example, while interesting and cool, has no place in Factorio and even less in YI. The current conversion through transmutation that exist in YI is primarily based on availability and rarity of the resources. All of the ores, wood and stone for 20 for 1 unicomp and vice versa. They're not based on density or any actual real world physics, they're based on game physics, ie the game generates these things in roughly the same quantity. None of these resources are any rarer or harder to get than any other, which is why they all have the same values. The differences are very minimal, like desert don't have any wood and so on.

That's just the basic YI. Once you add on the addons, things get even more unreal. We can literally generate 'mass' and then power from NOTHING. Given a little bit of power and a couple machinery, I can generate unicomps and make EVERYTHING in the game without mining and gathering ANY resources. That is how YI works and that's pretty much the only thing YI changes from vanilla Factorio. As Fatmice showed in one of his vids, with an initial investment of a couple stuff you can transmute unicomps into oil process the oil and transmute it back into unicomps for a profit. That same idea is applied into the addon called Profit from War. The only thing you do in that addon is make things trade them in for other things and make profits from making the things. You get more than you put in from every single trade in that addon. How realistic is that?

And that is the point. YI is not realistic. Factorio is not realistic. All this mod and this game does is create a production chain. That's all. YI adds on various production chains that are more complicated than the vanilla, but in no way changes anything from vanilla. That is essentially why I play the game and this mod, I like production chains, I like figuring out how to build something that's efficiently and aesthetically pleasing. If you were to try to balance YI you'd have to do something with the currency of the mod, ie fuels. Fuels are the overall currency used in YI and it is the thing that makes this mod different from others. Yuokitan took power out of the wires and stuck it in a thing that you can carry around in HUGE stack. If you want to balance the transmutation than you would either increase the power the machine needs to run and/or the time it needs to make something. Half of this is already in the game as a lot of YI machines use a butt load of power to run. The Infuser is famous for that, needing 100MW to run. The amount of steam and solar panels you need from vanilla to generate that much power is obscene.

[Fatmice]

My my, that is a fairly long rebuttal.

I will simply point to this post. https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 09#p105754

There are primarily two ways to balancing Yuoki Industries, exchange rate and energy equivalent, neither are realistic. The first is haphardzard at best, and the second violates thermodynamics. So the very end violates the goal. The numbers are what they are. In fact when I propose any balancing to Yuoki, privately and rarely, I use the existing numbers to "balance" any new additions that he made. This means the balancing is really not balancing but more of clustering, so that the new additions will not be outliers.

There are positive cycles in Yuoki Industries. They are there because YuokiTani himself wants them there. They are a boon for turtling, which is how he plays. The mod is made primarily for his play style. It wasn't always that way, but has been so quite early on after he realized how people choose to play mods. They play them because they offer convenience or features that vanilla or other mods don't. They also tend toward "OP" mods. This last reason is probably why fewer people play Yuoki Industries than the "other" mods, which I won't mention by name.

I will add further something that I think should be said but that nobody mentions for fear of sounding elitist. Whenever I see new forum goers with less than a hundred posts offering ideas and suggestions, I immediately do a quick read of that person's post history before I offer a reply. If all I see are posts around ideas and suggestions, I think that they suffers from what I call puppy syndrome. This is not meant to be a disparaging comment on the real person, but rather the state of their persona on this particular domain. Such person is too exited and should mellow out a bit before I will take anything they offer seriously.

[MantisShrimp]

@Yuokitan

impressive mod

-That's an impressive mod. Thanks, but you misspelled optimization, lol 2 of those in miner, washed the ores, 2 in the furnace = all the freaking copper/iron you'll ever need. Also, finally I have a use for all those unicomps I infused.
-The recipe for the crystal accumulator seems temporary, the new gfx looks amazing though. I imagine it needs superconductors and wires in there. Since there are 2 clear line of accumulators, I feel like the fast charge and regular version should have the same capacity but different charge/discharge rate, otherwise I don't see the point of making slower version aside from the fact that you can upgrade them and not the fast one. Also, the 2 lines should be exclusive like regsmall->regmed->regbig and fastsmall->fastmed->fastbig. Then the last 2 assembly only accumulators requires both regbig/fastbig and then the crystals and some wire/superconductors.
-I finally got around to play with the floor tiles that you added. While they're really cool, they're kind of useless for how I use floor tiles. I spam them by holding down the mouse key and running over whatever I want to have floor. That's just not possible with your tiles since they change depending on the size and changes if they're touching another tile of the same type and thus changes size. Covering an area of any significant size with your floor tiles is a huge hassle as it's impossible to spam. I don't know how some of the gfx would work, but it'll be a good idea to separate them into 9 floor tiles instead of 3, that way we can spam to cover a large area and then go back with a different floor tile for the detail work. They're really cool and I want to use them, but I can't cover 20-something chunks of ground without having it turning into a huge mess or spending so much time to make sure the floor tiles don't change based on size and stuff.
-I feel like purified copper should be used in more recipes. I think its only use is in bullet shells. On the other hand, purified iron is used in one of those fancy crystal that's used in a lot of advanced machinery. I think purified copper should be used in the recipe of the newer crystals, especially ones that will be apart of accumulators or electric-based stuff. Alien crystal fragments should be the base of all of the crystal recipes (to give it an alien-tech base), and then purified copper or iron depending on what they're used for (electricity-based or structure-based) plus various forms of the blue/green ores. The more advanced crystals would also require more advanced version of unicomp(dust, plate, block, infused) or combination of them.