More access to the logistics information

[tonberrytoby]

I saw that the logistics chests now display the items available to the network.

It would be nice if we had an logistics inserter, which could be programmed to insert on conditions of items in the logistics net.

Also, while at it, I do think that the conditions for requester chests and inserters should snap to the stacksize of the item in question. It is pretty annoying that you can't request an exact stack for almost all items.

[MF-]

I saw that the logistics chests now display the items available to the network.

It would be nice if we had an logistics inserter, which could be programmed to insert on conditions of items in the logistics net.

Also, while at it, I do think that the conditions for requester chests and inserters should snap to the stacksize of the item in question. It is pretty annoying that you can't request an exact stack for almost all items.

You have that inserter. You simply need to wire all the chests together by a red/green wire.

ssilk already mentioned and suggested this somewhere. It need to be toggle-able, beginners will be likely to prefer decimal.

[tonberrytoby]

I saw that the logistics chests now display the items available to the network.

It would be nice if we had an logistics inserter, which could be programmed to insert on conditions of items in the logistics net.

Also, while at it, I do think that the conditions for requester chests and inserters should snap to the stacksize of the item in question. It is pretty annoying that you can't request an exact stack for almost all items.

You have that inserter. You simply need to wire all the chests together by a red/green wire.

ssilk already mentioned and suggested this somewhere. It need to be toggle-able, beginners will be likely to prefer decimal.

I don't actually want to put a wire on every second power pole in my factory, in order to wire that up. And I don't like finding that fault in case I accidentally break it.

Beginners would probably also prefer to have stacks decimal. That would be the other option. I very much doubt those things are bit-packed.

[ssilk]

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =974#p6906

[kovarex]

I believe, that nice solution to this would be special machine, that would emit the supply content of the network into the circuit network.
This one piece connected to your network would replace wiring over all of your logistics chests (so it would save lot of tedious work).

[MF-]

I believe, that nice solution to this would be special machine, that would emit the supply content of the network into the circuit network.
This one piece connected to your network would replace wiring over all of your logistics chests (so it would save lot of tedious work).

Sounds like a good solution. The information, obviously, exists and can be transmitted to the UFOs... anyway.

[ssilk]

I don't actually want to put a wire on every second power pole in my factory, in order to wire that up. And I don't like finding that fault in case I accidentally break it.

I think I know what you mean. There are those long distant cables you lay, from chest to chest...

I think, it's not a good idea to sum up the inside of ALL chests / get a circuit-network over all items you produced. I think the wiring is useful for small parts of a factory. For example you can make a sub-factory for all types of belts with the two wire-colors, four smart inserters and one provider-chest, which stores all output. Or a sub-factory for electronics and advanced electronics with one wire-color, two smart-inserters and a chest.

But what you wanted to do is to control the hole factory! This is made in another way, and therefore are the logistic robots, the provider and requester chests thought. It tooks me some hours of playing to see that.

I hope I got the right point?

If not: I think the hole logistic-construction, the wiring, the smart inserters and so on are really cool. I like the wires. The look beautiful. I like the hole "making it work and it does what I want". This is real programmers feeling.

But.

Yes, but, because there are 2 systems, controlling the flow of material and the difference between them is not so obvious.
And the wiring itself is in my eyes ... pffff.... it takes some time. You need to produce the wires. When produces, you most seldom need all, so they spoil your inventory. But you might need them later. And then you need to klick, klick, klick, klick to make all the wires and they are so thin, that you sometimes cannot see them... then you need to program the inserters... and when you remove a pole, everything is lost...
It's also a little bit unlogical: You have the wire and you have the logistic network, which is ... a "wireless wire"? Why don't we have more "wireless wires", so that we can spare us that wiring?

I repeat: I like the wires, but I don't like to work with them too much.

I've many suggestions with this and I will post them in threads separated.

EDIT:

Beginners would probably also prefer to have stacks decimal. That would be the other option. I very much doubt those things are bit-packed.

Maybe yes and it makes more or less sense, because the operations for the cpu are much faster. But I also don't know. And to be asked if I want to have decimals, if this would be easily possible: Yes and no. Yes, because decimals look much nicer. No, because dual numbers are more technical/steam-punk.

[ssilk]

Stupid idea, but it keeps playing in my mind: Maybe for every type of chest two sub-chests: one with decimal and the other with dual-numbers? The decimal chests are always a little bit smaller than the dual?

[MF-]

Stupid idea, but it keeps playing in my mind: Maybe for every type of chest two sub-chests: one with decimal and the other with dual-numbers? The decimal chests are always a little bit smaller than the dual?

hehe..
But it sounds like too much build-selection clutter and imposing disadvantages onto decimal-likers.
Would each item have two stack sizes?

[tonberrytoby]

I don't actually want to put a wire on every second power pole in my factory, in order to wire that up. And I don't like finding that fault in case I accidentally break it.

I think I know what you mean. There are those long distant cables you lay, from chest to chest...

I think, it's not a good idea to sum up the inside of ALL chests / get a circuit-network over all items you produced. I think the wiring is useful for small parts of a factory. For example you can make a sub-factory for all types of belts with the two wire-colors, four smart inserters and one provider-chest, which stores all output. Or a sub-factory for electronics and advanced electronics with one wire-color, two smart-inserters and a chest.

How do you stop your bots from mixing everything up as soon as you add some storage chests? Or do you only use providers? Then storing more then 1 chest full of an item becomes annoying.
I don't wire my whole factory, I only need to access the stuff in the storage and provider chests.

Maybe yes and it makes more or less sense, because the operations for the cpu are much faster. But I also don't know. And to be asked if I want to have decimals, if this would be easily possible: Yes and no. Yes, because decimals look much nicer. No, because dual numbers are more technical/steam-punk.

By dual numbers you mean having 2 different number system in your interface?

[MF-]

By dual numbers you mean having 2 different number system in your interface?

I think it's just a mis-translated / unusual term for power-of-two numbers.

[ssilk]

Hum, replace dual with binary. sorry. I meant the base 2 numbers in the chests.

To the rest of the post
I tried to understand why I would add a chest for anything more complex. Perhaps we are on a completely different line? a different approach of plying the game?

I store for example rockets in a chest. But I never needed more than 500 at once. This goes in one chest. I don't use the provider chests. Only storage and requester chests, because with the providers you lose the control where the stuff is stored and need to wire all. I don't see how the provider chests could be useful without more control.

I don't store basic material, for example electric circuits or copper wires, because you need so much of it, that it is easier to produce it in time. I found out that it is much easier to produce the things you need to built also in time by yourself, because otherwise it spoils your inventory. Basic belts for example or the assemblers, the miners, burners etc. are all built by me, because it is much faster to make it in time instead of running seesaw between the chest and your building place. This is the reason why I suggested the auto building. https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ?f=6&t=985

I have big storages for the basic materials like iron ore, copper ore, iron plates, steel... But they are better described as simple buffers to help me out, when the mines are going empty. You see that much easier, when the belt is clear, that there must be some mines empty now.The strategy is to empty a resource field as fast as possible, so that it is time enough to find a new field and clean the space needed for expanding.

This post describes some of the problems, the game currently has in my eyes: the need to either run around to catch all you need or to wait until you built it yourself. The more or less useless provider chests.... Maybe it's only me, which sees it like this. Discussions needed, I think.

[ssilk]

Hum, replace dual with binary. sorry. I meant the base 2 numbers in the chests.

To the rest of the post
I tried to understand why I would add a chest for anything more complex. Perhaps we are on a completely different line? a different approach of plying the game?

I store for example rockets in a chest. But I never needed more than 500 at once. This goes in one chest. I don't use the provider chests. Only storage and requester chests, because with the providers you lose the control where the stuff is stored and need to wire all. I don't see how the provider chests could be useful without more control.

I don't store basic material, for example electric circuits or copper wires, because you need so much of it, that it is easier to produce it in time. I found out that it is much easier to produce the things you need to built also in time by yourself, because otherwise it spoils your inventory. Basic belts for example or the assemblers, the miners, burners etc. are all built by me, because it is much faster to make it in time instead of running seesaw between the chest and your building place. This is the reason why I suggested the auto building. https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ?f=6&t=985

I have big storages for the basic materials like iron ore, copper ore, iron plates, steel... But they are better described as simple buffers to help me out, when the mines are going empty. You see that much easier, when the belt is clear, that there must be some mines empty now.The strategy is to empty a resource field as fast as possible, so that it is time enough to find a new field and clean the space needed for expanding.

This post describes some of the problems, the game currently has in my eyes: the need to either run around to catch all you need or to wait until you built it yourself. The more or less useless provider chests.... Maybe it's only me, which sees it like this. Discussions needed, I think.

[tonberrytoby]

So you use inserters from the belt directly into storage chests? Ok. I would expect to just use providers and requesters and not use storage in this case.
It probably works well until you want to store more then 1 full chest.

I do like to store those pesky intermediate products ( circuits, wheels, steel) in large quantities. Also has an the advantage that I can pick up everything at my centralized storage.
I think, that unless you are very far away from your storage place, requesting a few thousand circuits, or wheels is much faster then building those directly in place.

I am going to make a small tour of my factory, when I get time. So you can see better what I mean.

[ssilk]

So you use inserters from the belt directly into storage chests? Ok. I would expect to just use providers and requesters and not use storage in this case.
It probably works well until you want to store more then 1 full chest.

Never needed that.

I do like to store those pesky intermediate products ( circuits, wheels, steel) in large quantities. Also has an the advantage that I can pick up everything at my centralized storage.

Yes, I understand. I tried that centralizing, but I found for myself, that it has some disadvantages that are bigger than the advantages.

- You store that. This means, that you have to built it before. This means, that you need resources for that. And the resources are then not there for other, more important things.
- it takes long to store and unload an item with the l-robots. In this time I could begin to produce it and will have first results.
- logistic-robots are expensive. I need only 100 and didn't upgrade them. They are just enough to fill up the requester chests I place all over the map.
- I don't want to run seezag, because that also needs time and I hate running around with the keyboard.

I think, that unless you are very far away from your storage place, requesting a few thousand circuits, or wheels is much faster then building those directly in place.

Yes. But the price is, that you need to store it and this takes resources, for things you only eventually need. The amount of things you need to built at the beginning is so big, that I think that you will have problems to follow with my approach.
Ok, your approach works well, if you have so much resources, that it doesn't matter how much you need to store them and build it for reserve.

I am going to make a small tour of my factory, when I get time. So you can see better what I mean.

Yes!
Indeed I think this is important to see other factories before someone can say this or that strategy is better, this element is more useful then that etc.

[tonberrytoby]

- You store that. This means, that you have to built it before. This means, that you need resources for that. And the resources are then not there for other, more important things.
- it takes long to store and unload an item with the l-robots. In this time I could begin to produce it and will have first results.
- logistic-robots are expensive. I need only 100 and didn't upgrade them. They are just enough to fill up the requester chests I place all over the map.
- I don't want to run seezag, because that also needs time and I hate running around with the keyboard.

Yes. But the price is, that you need to store it and this takes resources, for things you only eventually need. The amount of things you need to built at the beginning is so big, that I think that you will have problems to follow with my approach.
Ok, your approach works well, if you have so much resources, that it doesn't matter how much you need to store them and build it for reserve.

What is seezag? I never heard of this.

By the time I invent logistics and start using them my core factory is complete. I just need to make a few thousand boards and set up solars.

My tour video is uploading now ( finally ). I will make a thread once it has finished.

[MF-]

What is seezag? I never heard of this.

Here is what I suspect

I think it's what we call "zigzag" which originates from German?
That means going from one place to another, back and forth, back an forth. Usually in a "Z" pattern. (also - when you would be running away, dodging missiles, it would be the "afaik original" meaning of zigzag - running forward while madly running from side to side)

[ssilk]

- You store that. This means, that you have to built it before. This means, that you need resources for that. And the resources are then not there for other, more important things.
- it takes long to store and unload an item with the l-robots. In this time I could begin to produce it and will have first results.
- logistic-robots are expensive. I need only 100 and didn't upgrade them. They are just enough to fill up the requester chests I place all over the map.
- I don't want to run seezag, because that also needs time and I hate running around with the keyboard.

Yes. But the price is, that you need to store it and this takes resources, for things you only eventually need. The amount of things you need to built at the beginning is so big, that I think that you will have problems to follow with my approach.
Ok, your approach works well, if you have so much resources, that it doesn't matter how much you need to store them and build it for reserve.

What is seezag? I never heard of this.

Uhmmm... Meant seesaw. It was a word I learnt only one week ago. My bridge was "zigzag" which means running like a rabbit in German, so I mixed it.

By the time I invent logistics and start using them my core factory is complete. I just need to make a few thousand boards and set up solars.

My tour video is uploading now ( finally ). I will make a thread once it has finished.

Hm. It would be very interesting to see how much time others need to achive this. I would write it down and tell, but I know me, when I'm playing I will forget this.

It would be quite handy, if we could have some kind of statistics in the game. Simple things like, which map, which type of game, how many item (by self), how much electricity, resources... When was the first steam engine, electric miner, etc. built. When was the first blue potion built, the first rocket, solar cell... When was what researched...

Adding this I would like to see statistics of others. Send the statistics anonymously to a server, if agreed. So others can see the average progress.

Some other reason for this: we don't know how the game progresses. And we don't know, if changes will bring the game forward into the right direction.

And another: automated statistics. some stupid calculations, like "With this type of map 99% have reached electricity in 10 minutes and research in 20." So this means (if nothing else is known) that research is always after electricity. This is clear for us, but maybe, someone manages to create research before electric? Bad example I know, but there are game elements, which don't need this order.

With those statistics, the game can give you some kind of automated goals. I think for a button "what next?". The game sends statistics to the server and a list of most matching statistics is returned and listed in order of game time.