[request]Multi-Layered Assembly Machines?

[ares0027]

I dont know if anyone has suggested or working on it. I searched first few pages and couldnt find anything similar.


What i mean by "multi-layered assembly machines" is an assembly machine not just requesting the mere ingredients of the lates recipe we requested but could also use multiple levels lower ingredients;

Example;

When we are crafting "Inserters" in an assembly machine should be fed;

• 1x Electronic Circuit
  1x Iron Plate
  1x Iron Gear

and this requires at least 4 assembly machines, one to craft wheel, one to craft copper cables, one to craft circuit and the last one for the insterter. we know assembly machine 2 can use up to 4 ingredients therefore we are not using 1 slot.

If it was a "multi-layered assembly machine" we could simply feed it;

• 3x Iron Plates
  1x Electronic Circut

it could use its internal buffer (last slot) to craft Iron Gear Wheel first and use it on the last leve of the recipe.

And maybe (if it is balanced correctly) with upgrades (or not) we could simply feed it;

• 2x Copper Plates
  4x Iron Plates

[Gandalf]

So this would essentially make the game trivial and take all the fun out of it. Need anything crafted? Don't worry about planning and building a complex factory, just plonk down a few multi-layered assembler and have them do all the work for you.
Thanks but no thanks, sorry.

Edit: So when I just checked in there was a pretty hefty reply to my post, which has now been deleted.
I apologize if my post was a little harsh and/or inconsiderate. Obviously everbody has different feelings about how a game should be balanced and how it is best to play it. What I stated is simply my opinion concerning the inclusion of the above described idea into the vanilla game. I simply believe that it'd make the game boring, no hard feelings about it. If somebody makes a mod for this which allows individuals to decide on playing with this feature, be my guest. It's not like I'm gonna judge you for how you play, whatever makes the game fun for you is right.

Why I think it makes the game too easy: Even if the multi-layered assembler isn't able to assemble an item from its very basic materials, but instead requires some intermediate ingredientes to be pre-assembled, it will still essentially take away some of the complexity of the assembling process. However it is exactly this complexity, the fact that you need up to 4 and more assemblers chained before you can finally assemble some end products, that makes it necessary to come up with non-trivial and creative factory layouts. That is what makes the game fun for me and, according to what I've read, probably the majority of players.

[ares0027]

deleted content cause identical to first post after joining -- ssilk

[Gandalf]

(deleted content because obsolete after merging – gandalf)

[bigyihsuan]

I like this. Less space for crafting an item, but this might need to be significantly more expensive. Perhaps use multiple Assembly Machines in the making of a multi-assembly machine?

[ares0027]

Is there a reason posts in this thread are disappearing without any further comment?
I'm pretty sure my last edit was sufficiently objective.

Edit: Steps so far:

1. Thread created
2. I post my reply
3. OP replied to my reply
4. OP's reply disappeard
5. I edited my reply
6. My reply disappeared
7. I added this comment
8. This comment disappeared and my inial, edited reply reappeared
9. My initial, edited reply disappeared again and this comment reappeared
10. I added this list for research purpuses and general amusement

Come on guys, make up your mind.

there are two identical threads (i noticed that i posted to factorio suggestions not mod ideas) and that is why i deleted my reply to that post and recreated this post (this is the reason why my reply disappeared) but i have no idea about rest.

I like this. Less space for crafting an item, but this might need to be significantly more expensive. Perhaps use multiple Assembly Machines in the making of a multi-assembly machine?

definitely. and there should never be an assembly machine with 10-15 slots. i thik (for the latest one) maximum of 5-6 slots should be enough OR every single recipe/item should take a slot;

lets say that there is a machine with unlimited slots and you want to create inserters;

1 slot for iron plate
1 slot for copper plate
1 slot for copper cable (that is created by the same machine)
1 slot for iron gear (that is created by the same machine)
1 slot for electronic circuit (that is created by the same machine)

therefore it should take at least third level assembly machine (if we assume each level adds 1 slot) with 5 slots which should be highest possible slots (or something like lvl1 -> 3 slots, lvl 2-> 3 slots but faster, lvl 3-> 4 slots etc..)



balancing should be done carefully otherwise as Gandalf said (to other post) game will become trivial

[Gandalf]

there are two identical threads [...]

Well I look silly, thanks for clearing that up. I thought somebody was going nuts with the moderation

[ares0027]

there are two identical threads [...]

Well I look silly, thanks for clearing that up. I thought somebody was going nuts with the moderation

nah it was my fault

[SHiRKiT]

Well, this kind of stuff is really cool for ultra late game. In that state of the game, you actually only want to save FPS, nothing else. Having things like 400 chemicals plants running (now imagine how many AM and inserters the factory may have) can lag the game by a LOT. Ideas like these helps mitigate those issues.

[ssilk]

@ares0027: this was fun, I need to join your both threads. This is double sad, cause the initial post looks quite nice and the whole suggestion is now under a dark star please never post two identical posts in two different boards, cause it a source of total confusion. Never delete a post, if someone could read it and replied. Never do stuff with your posts or threads, without informing the others.

I can (and will do) a link in both forums.

For the future: there is a button "!" (Report this post), which all moderators will follow if the author says "can you move it", or do any useful stuff with this post/thread.

[ares0027]

: this was fun, I need to join your both threads. This is double sad, cause the initial post looks quite nice and the whole suggestion is now under a dark star please never post two identical posts in two different boards, cause it a source of total confusion. Never delete a post, if someone could read it and replied. Never do stuff with your posts or threads, without informing the others.

I can (and will do) a link in both forums.

For the future: there is a button "!" (Report this post), which all moderators will follow if the author says "can you move it", or do any useful stuff with this post/thread.

i thought i marked it to be deleted, i guess i forgot to. my bad, you are right

[ares0027]

so? anyone?

[Gammro]

While I understand SHiRKiT's sentiment, for performance reasons, I still feel it would trivialize the game as Gandalf said.

That said, isn't it already possible for multiple recipe declarations to make a product? Like basic and advanced oil processing? This could mean you can already make a mod of it, add a second recipe for a new kind of machine(though this could clutter the crafting menu)

[ares0027]

While I understand SHiRKiT's sentiment, for performance reasons, I still feel it would trivialize the game as Gandalf said.

That said, isn't it already possible for multiple recipe declarations to make a product? Like basic and advanced oil processing? This could mean you can already make a mod of it, add a second recipe for a new kind of machine(though this could clutter the crafting menu)

i dont think it is the same thing. advanced oil processing just creates (same) products with (different) input. it does not craft one thing and use the very same thing (without moving it to output) to create another, does it?


edit: but i checked the scripts now and i think i can do this mod it will take hell lot of time since i have no idea about lua but i will try!

edit2: i dont think game will let you use an ingredient OR another to create an output. it will only use an ingredient AND another or a different one AND another different one. Which will result in a huge amount of recipes for the very same output

[Gammro]

edit2: i dont think game will let you use an ingredient OR another to create an output. it will only use an ingredient AND another or a different one AND another different one. Which will result in a huge amount of recipes for the very same output [/quote]

Which is what I meant with:

(though this could clutter the crafting menu)

Maybe you could do a limited set of recipes, and if possible, declare a new menu-tab for those? I think Dytech made a custom tab, though I'm not sure.

[ares0027]

Which is what I meant with:

(though this could clutter the crafting menu)

Maybe you could do a limited set of recipes, and if possible, declare a new menu-tab for those? I think Dytech made a custom tab, though I'm not sure.

yep this is exactly what i was thinking. i dig through dytech mods (especially machines) and i think i am able to create a new tab and create a new kind of assembler that crafts only from that new tab. but if we use the very first example

there should be;

A) An inserter recipe that requires;
1 Electronic Circuit
2 Iron Plates

B) Another insterter recipe that requires;
3 Copper Cables
4 Iron Plates

C) Yet another inserter recipe that requires (that results an extra copper cable or simply destroys it);
2 Copper Plates (Or if i can find a way 1,5x Copper Plates)
4 Iron Plates

even for a basic inserter it makes 3 different (yet looking exactly same) recipes that crafts exactly same item. More items, more variations, more recipes, more menus. I think it will (in a way) lose its purpose. But i am still working on the idea.

[bobingabout]

This is an interesting idea.

There is of course an assembly machine that does this already: The player.

I suppose the question is, does it make the items simultaniously, or in order? if it makes them in order, I'd probably go and call it sometihng like a Smart Assembly machine. You tell it what project you want, you give it raw resources, as long as it has all the parts, it goes ahead and builds the final product, just takes as long as it would to make all the parts.

[ares0027]

This is an interesting idea.

There is of course an assembly machine that does this already: The player.

I suppose the question is, does it make the items simultaniously, or in order? if it makes them in order, I'd probably go and call it sometihng like a Smart Assembly machine. You tell it what project you want, you give it raw resources, as long as it has all the parts, it goes ahead and builds the final product, just takes as long as it would to make all the parts.

yea like the second part; (if we simplify) it has a set amount of time (all the necessary recipes combined together) and simply crafts that item in that exact amount of time (ofc there could/should be faster/slower variants)


and for the comment; exactly like the player but i dont think you can connect to your own game multiple times and set some of the instances to create specific items and use each instance as an assembly machine. but idea is exactly that: creating player-like assembly machines

[ares0027]

ah... here i am, 5 years later, still couldn't find anything like this. but one can hope, right?

[ssilk]

Sounds like a relatively simple mod: go through all receipts, take a receipt, and do the calculations for needed raw material and time and create that as new receipt.