HUGE feature brainstorm for Logic circuits, Sensors, ...

[FrozenOne]

There is one aditional update i'd like to see before multiplayer (which will probably have no use for me), and that's more control and logic elements. I always loved how in Minecraft given just few redstone stuff and enough time and creativity you can build a fully working computer ingame. I think in Factorio the stuff can be even more important due to game aim of automatization and optimalization of manufacturing process.

I don't know if you dev guys have some final picture for which you would aim, not to add some things that won't quite fit later, so i'll show a picture i can think of. It's an attempt to put a list of features, partly collected from forums and often requested, into common framework. All that really doesn't need to be implemented, but some of features can be added one by one maybe to improve slowly.

All the items would belong into new crafting tab "circuitry". I'll update the original post based on comments and discussion.

Basic items
Optical fibre
-used to carry digital signal, 0 or 1
-can glow slightly if "1"
-more fibres on one pole basically mean "OR"

Lever
-1 fibre output
-0 or 1 toggleable by player click

Invertor
-2x1 building, 2 fibre connections, output signal inverted of input: 0->1, 1->0

Logic gate
-crafted using cicruits and invertors
-3x1 building, 2 inputs, 1 output
-would open small gui allowing to
--toggle main button between AND, OR, <=>
--3 small buttons alowing to invert each of inputs and output, thus allowing to easily create all important functions
-selected function would be graphically depicted on the building

Tresholder
-convert analog signal to digital
-1 legacy red/green wire input, 1 digital output
-used for connection to sensors or legacy logistic network
-small gui allowing to
--select an item tresholder should pay attention to
---if no item selected it counts sum of all input analog signals
--set amount over which tresholder outputs 1
-actually exactly same logic as current smart inserter, so easy to implement

Delay
-delays signal for slider-adjustable amount of time

Diode
-allows signal just one way

Sensors
Light sensor
-outputs value 1-100 based on natural daylight

Belt sensor
-outputs number of items passing the belt per time interval

Accumulator
-now conenctable to ouput percentage of energy stored

Radar
-now connectable to output number of enemies in range

Mining drill
-now connectable to output remaining ore

Car content sensor
-outputs items in car/rail carriage in front of it

Pollution sensor
-outputs current pollution level at its location

Energy usage sensor
-outputs percent of energy used by network

Effectors
Wall gate
-open/close based on signal

Rail signal
-red/green, now connectible by fibre

Train station
-now connectable to force train to leave for next station upon signal

Relay
-1 wire input, 1 wire output, 1 fibre input
-connects 2 power networks
-allows (oneway) energy flow if 1 on input
-used to shut entire parts of factory off juice

Smart inserter
-of course

Alarm/bell
-can select from multiple sound effects?

Wireless link
-expensive, late in tech
-can select channel number
-transmits signal to all other links at the same channel

With blueprints available, player would be able to quickly assemble complicated circuits.
Example usage:
Lever -> Wall gate
Lever -> Relay = manual turning on/off of factory parts
Car sensor -> Tresholder set on Players > 1 -> Delay -> Wall gate = automatic opening gate for cars
Daylight sensor -> Tresholder -> Relay = shut down production during night
Radar -> Tresholder -> Invertor -> Relay = shut down production during attack, enable steam engines during attack bigger than x
Pollution sensor -> Tresholder -> Relay = maintain low pollution or shutdown polluting industries
Radar -> Tresholder -> Alarm = warning on incoming wave
Mining drills -> Tresholder -> Invertor -> Alarm = warning when resources get low
2 Logic gates = 1 bit memory cell
...

Let me know if you can think of more things to add or improve.

[Deathmage]

The ability for a pulse to go into a train the leave upon ariving.

[FrozenOne]

The ability for a pulse to go into a train the leave upon ariving.

Car sensor -> Rail signal/Station rail signal

[Gammro]

Yes! The current system with red and green wires is already quite cool, but it is really big and complex when trying to do anything beyond what it's meant for.

See this topic: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=8&t=1606

2 Logic gates = 1 bit memory cell

Flip-flops then, cool

[BurnHard]

Don't get me wrong, but don't you think the typical-casual-random-player would be overwhelmed by these complex items? (as a person that has normally nothing to do with electronic logic). Can he beat the game without it?

In the multiplayer mentionend, if it is player vs player, i think you won't have the time for playing with such toys, because you will need every second to build defence-weapons and offencive weapons and with first priority to basically survive.

[Gammro]

Don't you think the typical-casual-random-player would be overwhelmed by these complex items? (as a person that has normally nothing to do with electronic logic).

In the multiplayer mentioned, if it is player vs player, i think you won't have the time for playing with such toys, because you will need every second to build defence-weapons and offencive weapons and with first priority to basically survive.

You could say the same about redstone in minecraft, even though the amount of items related to it are smaller than the list FrozenOne made. With the complexity of having to make the logic gates itself, I'd place it on about the same complexity. And people still like Minecraft, even though a lot of(/the majority of) people will probably only dabble with the redstone options.
As for the items in Factorio, they could be placed under a new tab of items "logic" to not make it clutter up the rest of the crafting menu.

And yes, there is probably little place for large logic structures in PvP MP. But to be honest, I don't currently see PvP working in Factorio anyway, but much more heading to a cooperative MP game.

[ssilk]

I also think this is too much.

We already have those genial circuit networks. We should use them instead of complicated computer-logic (Uh? Is it me speaking?)

Example: Light sensor.
Instead of having a cable, which transports the information of the light sensor, we can use the already existing circuit network. In practice this means, there is the number of copper, iron and ... light sensors, which are signaling.
Light sensor is one signal of the circuit network, exactly like the number of the items in the chests.
Simple.

And if you want to switch something with it, just say "If lightsensor-signal > 0 ..."

Well. The logic for the circuit network must be redone. And I want a device where I could create own logic and own signals and put in my. And I want to have informations about the logistic network. And want to transfer the information over long distances. And filter them.

And above that all I mean we should have channels. This looks like so:

• Circuit network
  • Channels
    • Signal
      • value
• Logistic network

Or in other words: The logistic network is a channel of the circuit network.

[TGS]

I don't want to seem like I am attacking anyone or 'pushing' at people. But when someone tries to prioritize one feature over another simply because they would not use the feature which currently sits on priority it makes me shake my head. Fact of the matter is that multiplayer is something that 1. Was promised as a stretch goal and achieved 2. Will be used by far FAR more people than the redstone stuff in Minecraft is. Don't get me wrong, the redstone 'logic' stuff is interesting and neat. But it is also very niche. And it also applies to a much MUCH larger game. Just so happens that this game was derived from it.

I think this would be very good as a long-term goal for the game, but certainly MOST certainly not a goal that pushes it's way in before something like Multiplayer or pretty much any other critical gameplay feature. I mean at best this sort of thing should be added as a post-release feature. And by release I mean 'retail'/1.0 release.

I understand and that get that a lot of people won't play multiplayer, I get that. But I've seen this time and time and time again in other game communities where people have this logic that they should 'focus heavily on the single player' which coincidentally pushes out the prospect of multiplayer entirely. Often times those same people use the logic of 'I won't play multiplayer so it isn't important and shouldn't be added'. Again another fallacy applied based solely on selfish opinions of people who focus on only their personal enjoyment of the game. Now the reason I'm making this 'argument' is because I want to address this issue both from the standpoint of this game as well as the standpoint of other games which worked so well in single player that the communities developed an innate dislike or distrust for the concept of multiplayer as if it would somehow taint the single player game.

So please... this applies to everyone. If YOU personally won't play multiplayer or insert x feature, please don't discount it as a priority for the game. Or any game for that matter. Because more often than not lots of other people WILL enjoy said feature and use it extensively. This can apply to both multiplayer and the 'logic' features. Both are valid features. But when thinking about it logically (lol) most people can play multiplayer, whether they choose to or not is irrelevant. The same cannot be said for extensive and complex logic circuit systems. Sure they're neat and they have been used to create amazing things in minecraft, but I'd say a good chunk of people in Minecraft never touch redstone. Many might only use it for very VERY basic things. IE 'turn light on/off'. Or 'open door'. The amount of people that use it for massively complex things is likely to be the minority, not the majority. It just so happens that those people tend to get a lot more media/press attention due to the amazing nature of what they are doing with what is ultimately a pretty simple system. From a strictly programming sense that is.

[Gammro]

I don't want to seem like I am attacking anyone or 'pushing' at people. But when someone tries to prioritize one feature over another simply because they would not use the feature which currently sits on priority it makes me shake my head. Fact of the matter is that multiplayer is something that 1. Was promised as a stretch goal and achieved 2. Will be used by far FAR more people than the redstone stuff in Minecraft is. Don't get me wrong, the redstone 'logic' stuff is interesting and neat. But it is also very niche. And it also applies to a much MUCH larger game. Just so happens that this game was derived from it.

*Rest of big quote, removed for the sake of conserving space.*

I think you have misinterpreted me when I said the stuff about MP: I see MP as a big priority, it's something I very much look forward to. However, I meant to say I didn't see factorio taking off as something that would be played PvP a lot, but more as a cooperative game. But maybe I'm wrong and PvP will be very popular, I'm not exactly a psychic .

What I meant with that in relation to the logic system; Logic system probably won't be built very much in a game where you're competing against another player, because it would take too much time from defending and expanding basic production. As you'd come to a point where you can find time to build a complex logic system, the game is probably as good as won.

I do think an expanded logic system is something that would be cool to add to the game in the long term. Maybe the amount of proposed parts is a bit too much, and maybe it could be kept much more as an expansion on the current green/red networks. And maybe I'm biased, I'm just excited for the ideas of FrozenOne.

[TGS]

I don't want to seem like I am attacking anyone or 'pushing' at people. But when someone tries to prioritize one feature over another simply because they would not use the feature which currently sits on priority it makes me shake my head. Fact of the matter is that multiplayer is something that 1. Was promised as a stretch goal and achieved 2. Will be used by far FAR more people than the redstone stuff in Minecraft is. Don't get me wrong, the redstone 'logic' stuff is interesting and neat. But it is also very niche. And it also applies to a much MUCH larger game. Just so happens that this game was derived from it.

*Rest of big quote, removed for the sake of conserving space.*

I think you have misinterpreted me when I said the stuff about MP: I see MP as a big priority, it's something I very much look forward to. However, I meant to say I didn't see factorio taking off as something that would be played PvP a lot, but more as a cooperative game. But maybe I'm wrong and PvP will be very popular, I'm not exactly a psychic .

What I meant with that in relation to the logic system; Logic system probably won't be built very much in a game where you're competing against another player, because it would take too much time from defending and expanding basic production. As you'd come to a point where you can find time to build a complex logic system, the game is probably as good as won.

I do think an expanded logic system is something that would be cool to add to the game in the long term. Maybe the amount of proposed parts is a bit too much, and maybe it could be kept much more as an expansion on the current green/red networks. And maybe I'm biased, I'm just excited for the ideas of FrozenOne.

Yeah, that's why I wasn't really aiming the post at anyone in particular though. Because this is a mentality that has gotten increasingly worse on many MANY game communities over the years. I've actually seen games that would have been absolutely amazing with multiplayer had the 'idea' shot down at every turn every time someone suggested it simply because those people felt that the game was better as single player and that multiplayer wouldn't work or that they themselves wouldn't play it. Which was more the point. People think "I won't play it so it's a bad idea". The one main example I can cite of this is the Sims community. The Sims community is rife with this sort of thinking. That and the one attempt EA made at multiplayer was a terrible attempt that was designed badly right from the get-go. Sims is an example of a single player game that would be amazing with multiplayer, provided it wasn't done in an MMO/EA controlled fashion. KSP (Kerbal Space Program) was another one. Though people's minds got changed pretty quick with that as soon as someone did a MP mod that turned out to be an amazing proof of concept.

There are many more I could go into, but I don't want to derail the topic.

Rant

As far as the PvP, that's not really true and it remains to be seen. I think it would actually go the exact same way MC did. MC based purely on 'functionality' does not work with PvP at all. Yet there are many MANY extremely successful PvP servers. Many Mods dedicated to PvP, and while I don't play them I do acknowledge that you can't assume on these things. You give players the tools and they will refashion those tools far beyond what your original intention was for said tools. So my suggestion to the Factorio Devs is just make it open ended. Let the player decide how they want to play. If they wanna pvp... let them. Even encourage it. If they wanna CoOp let them do that too. I really hope it isn't one of those games where they think "PvP is too hard to balance so we'll just make it impossible".

The logic system could work very well in most facets of gameplay, however if added to the complexity that has been outlined I cannot honestly see it being used much as a gameplay element at all. This is where it really comes down to being an optional 'neat' addition rather than something that is part of the core gameplay. Which is exactly why if added it needs to be done as a post-release feature. There is a game that came 'out' recently which is absolutely filled with optional fluff that doesn't really pertain to gameplay or really anything other than just... fluff to make the game feel more lively. Yet I recall several points during development where the game wasn't being released strictly because they were working on adding this fluff. Holding a game back to add fluff and flavor is just... silly. // End Rant lol.

I'm for these additions though really. I could see amazing potential with it not just in what people can do with it, but also due to the fact that they could even share saves/scenarios that employ these systems heavily. Think the Warcraft map editor with some seriously complex/advanced trigger maps being created and shared. Hell even being forked into their own games (Aka DOTA)

[FrozenOne]

TGS: firstly, this game is about automating factory production, so it attracts mostly the tinkerers, not the people that would fear to connect 2 boxes with a wire. Secondly, adding a few logic elements wouldn't take more than a month, while multiplayer would take at least 6 months (9, if we take current predictions vs reality) to have some basic coop game with rare crashes. And during these 9 months we'll be constantly dealing with cries to "add gates to walls", "i have to walk to check miners depletion", "i hate having to mine and replant electric poles everytime i want to turn off part of factory" or "steam engines run when acumulators are full", "i want solar prior steam". (and btw, multiplayer wasn't reached, though promised anyway)

ssilk: you say the same as i think, except the "switched something" would be the tresholder. I don't know how you imagine doing logic on analog network carrying all signals. How would that work? How would more complex logical conditions be realized? How would you implement delay/memory on that?

edit:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=2087
And here we go again. How hard would it be to give people a way to setup their own logic for accumulators and 100 other things instead of endless quarreling at which percentage of charge what should be hardwired to turn on and off.

[TGS]

TGS: firstly, this game is about automating factory production, so it attracts mostly the tinkerers, not the people that would fear to connect 2 boxes with a wire. Secondly, adding a few logic elements wouldn't take more than a month, while multiplayer would take at least 6 months (9, if we take current predictions vs reality) to have some basic coop game with rare crashes. And during these 9 months we'll be constantly dealing with cries to "add gates to walls", "i have to walk to check miners depletion", "i hate having to mine and replant electric poles everytime i want to turn off part of factory" or "steam engines run when acumulators are full", "i want solar prior steam". (and btw, multiplayer wasn't reached, though promised anyway)

Wow okay umm. Saying the game attracts the tinkerer's is like saying minecraft attracts the creative types. There is no point saying that. It goes without saying. As far as the estimations I really cannot comment or speculate and I doubt you can either. Unless there has been hard estimates thrown by the developers somewhere specifically that you can refer me to that I haven't seen I'm not going to consider that a valid part of the equation. As far as people crying to add this and that. They already do. All of these things have been raised, at least a few times. Possibly dozens of times in some cases. I'm not sure why this would have any impact or application to this discussion?

As far as the general gist of your post it seems like you are trying to say that this should be a greater priority than multiplayer due to it taking less time and perhaps appealing to more people? You've played minecraft right? Out of ALL of the people that play it. Are you trying to tell me that the redstone aspect of it is worth more than... say... the multiplayer aspect? I'm not saying don't add it. In fact quite the opposite. I think it would make a great addition. But I wouldn't for a moment think that adding that will make nearly the same impact on the overall popularity of the game than being able to play it with your friends.

[BurnHard]

To be honest:

Yes, I want to be able to see when my miners are depleted, control my accumulator and energy production settings etc, but this should somehow be possible via game interface like clicking on an energy pole or other simple solution.

But I would quit the game if have to lay cables to my mainbase for every mining site or whatever. It is already no fun to build the 5th rail track to my 10th mining site (yeah blueprints ) but thinking, that I would use a significant amount of time to cable all these entities with logical electronic connections to be able to do that? If you really want e.g. to control the energy distribution soloely with this logic circuits, 95% of all players would have to really learn how such a logical element would work from the very basics on, with a high possibility of frustration, because it doesn't work how they want to.

As mentioned, it could be a nice add-on or mod (wouldn't that be a perfect idea for a mod?), but the main game should be able to absolutely work without it.

[TGS]

To be honest:

Yes, I want to be able to see when my miners are depleted, control my accumulator and energy production settings etc, but this should somehow be possible via game interface like clicking on an energy pole or other simple solution.

But I would quit the game if have to lay cables to my mainbase for every mining site or whatever. It is already no fun to build the 5th rail track to my 10th mining site (yeah blueprints ) but thinking, that I would use a significant amount of time to cable all these entities with logical electronic connections to be able to do that? If you really want e.g. to control the energy distribution soloely with this logic circuits, 95% of all players would have to really learn how such a logical element would work from the very basics on, with a high possibility of frustration, because it doesn't work how they want to.

As mentioned, it could be a nice add-on or mod (wouldn't that be a perfect idea for a mod?), but the main game should be able to absolutely work without it.

Agreed completely. The last thing I would want to see is these additions be put in, then used as a justification or excuse to why x feature isn't put in. "Why didn't you put in gates?" "Because you can do it with the logic system". "Why didn't you put in proper measuring and metering systems?" "Logic system can do it!" that would get tedious and annoying for most gamers. And by most gamers I mean average gamers. Not hardcore fans who want it to be as complex and complicated and deep as... well as in real life. Sometimes we forget that we are playing a game, not a simulation. While it can simulate things, it is afaik ultimately still just a game. Meant for fun. And while these features will be fun for many, they won't be for others. Hence why they should ultimately remain optional. If you want to complicate your factory by all means go for it, but if you are put in a position where you have to simply to play the game. It will put off many MANY potential fans and customers.

[FrozenOne]

TGS:
Play with your friends...few points to be noted about multiplayer:
Games that don't have some matchmaking system get mostly annoying in PvP
-if you play with a friend, you rarely have similar skill at the game so one of you (him, of course ) loses every time and loses interest to play
-not many people play factorio, so you might run out of players really fast, also, trolls, leavers in a 20 hour game
-factorio games take many hours/days and it's hard to find anyone with that much free time at same daytime, also reconnecting to existing game has to be implemented
-current combat system is silly and i cant quite imagine PvP even in 2 years, not in 6 months, it would be something like "player1 shotgunned 4 hours of work of player2, then they ran together and one of them died first", because weapons can't miss, damage output is predefined before battle and players move at a constant speed.

On the other hand, i can quite imagine entertaining coop building. For a day of gametime or 2. With logic to offer endless optimalization and design of systems i can imagine weeksful of coop building.

Devs mentioned some time estimates earlier, and i watch their development for some time and i know their estimates are hard underestimates

Burnhard:
Tell me what player can't connect accumulator or light sensor to a building that can set desired percentage by slidebar and connect that to a "smart electric pole" relay. Or connect lever to the gate? Why would devs implement that if player can? Are we doing a game for 2 years old? Or can't normal people use their brains or experiment (most fun to me) to devise some simple mechanic? Also, in minecraft, you seek _all_ the recipes on web. Everyone can at least copy some more difficult schematic if he really wants it for something. And i think people should learn and think in games, not to get dumb. With given freedom, players can build much more than what developers can "prepare" for them.
(also, i mentioned wireless, remote connections, why talk about laying cables between bases)

[TGS]

Play with your friends...few points to be noted about multiplayer:
Games that don't have some matchmaking system get mostly annoying in PvP
-if you play with a friend, you rarely have similar skill at the game so one of you (him, of course ) loses every time and loses interest to play
-not many people play factorio, so you might run out of players really fast, also, trolls, leavers in a 20 hour game
-factorio games take many hours/days and it's hard to find anyone with that much free time at same daytime, also reconnecting to existing game has to be implemented
-current combat system is silly and i cant quite imagine PvP even in 2 years, not in 6 months, it would be something like "player1 shotgunned 4 hours of work of player2, then they ran together and one of them died first", because weapons can't miss, damage output is predefined before battle and players move at a constant speed.

Okay well the first part of this response is largely based on pvp which should never have much stock placed in it unless you are specifically aiming at the PvP market. Nothing wrong with PvP mind you, just don't put any weight in it unless that is exactly what you are going for. Aka Competitive gaming.
The second part implies losing, how do you lose in a sandbox game if not competing? See previous statement.
Third part: As far as not many people playing Factorio, this I can agree with. However I would like to think that multiplayer will change that. As will getting on Steam. Not really an issue worth making an issue imo. If you design your game around current players rather than 'potential' players you've already failed at game development. That isn't how progress is achieved. Always expand the market base, while keeping true to your current market base. That is how you make success in any industry.

-current combat system is silly and i cant quite imagine PvP even in 2 years, not in 6 months, it would be something like "player1 shotgunned 4 hours of work of player2, then they ran together and one of them died first", because weapons can't miss, damage output is predefined before battle and players move at a constant speed.

Separating this because I feel that it needs depth. Trolling, griefing and generally causing havoc for other players is always ALWAYS going to be an issue with a creative sandbox game of any nature. If you can create something in said game. Someone can, and probably will want to come along and destroy it. Which will actually bring me to addressing the next part. You can view this in action with Minecraft, Terraria, ANY creativity based forum or chat or pretty much anywhere on the internet where people create content. Someone will come along for their own amusement and try to destroy, deface, defame, detract or otherwise ruin the content and/or it's creator. Why? Because the moment a person gains anonymity they turn into assholes. They do things they otherwise wouldn't. The moral compass goes out the window. So this is exactly why the game cannot be designed or built around PvP. Not to say PvP shouldn't be an option, but it shouldn't be designed around it either. There are many ways around this. The developers could introduce server-side protections/whitelisting which should pretty much be a given. They could implement various protective methods for creations. They could have administration and rollback options similar to fCraft and the various rollback plugins for Bukkit. There are plenty of options around it. But "not doing it" simply because of those potential implications is simply unacceptable imo.

On the other hand, i can quite imagine entertaining coop building. For a day of gametime or 2. With logic to offer endless optimalization and design of systems i can imagine weeksful of coop building.

CoOp will be where multiplayer really shines. That alone should justify *ANY* potential downside imo. The simple logic of playing a game you enjoy and saying "Yeah... I would love to bring my friend in here and do x with them" is overwhelming and quite amazing. There are very VERY few games where this simply doesn't work for whatever reason and the most common reason is time manipulation. IE the ability to speed up or slow down time. Balance is rarely a worthy reason for lack of multiplayer. But it's probably up there with time manipulation as being a used 'excuse'. That being said the one reason I can actually understand for not having multiplayer in any game is where the player has to be 'the hero' and the entire game is built around that fact. But... if you've played most MMO's, or at least World of Warcraft you'll find that even they blow that excuse out of the water lol. Anyway, forgive me I'm ranting lol.

Devs mentioned some time estimates earlier, and i watch their development for some time and i know their estimates are hard underestimates

As far as I know, a fair amount of work has already been done on preparing the game for multiplayer. I've also seen similar estimates with MP but I am confident that they would manage it a lot sooner. That being said, there is making multiplayer work. Then there is making multiplayer work WELL. Who knows how long it will take them to make it work well. But I certainly think that it is a worthy investment of time, not only that I believe it is something that they should probably get out of the way sooner rather than later. For every additional feature they add they potentially complicated the process of making multiplayer further due to X feature not being written with multiplayer in mind. It's always better to get the 'big stuff' out of the way earlier before you start adding a bunch more stuff on top imo.

Burnhard:
Tell me what player can't connect accumulator to a building that can set desired percentage by slidebar and connect that to a "smart electric pole" relay. Or connect lever to the gate? Why would devs implement that if player can? Are we doing a game for 2 years old? Or can't normal people use their brains or experiment (most fun to me) to devise some simple mechanic? Also, in minecraft, you seek _all_ the recipes on web. Everyone can at least copy some more difficult schematic if he really wants it for something. And i think people should learn and think in games, not to get dumb. With given freedom, players can build much more than what developers can "prepare" for them.
(also, i mentioned wireless, remote connections, why talk about laying cables between bases)

I know this is directed at Burnhard but I personally found it bordering on offensive. It sounds almost like you are saying people are stupid for not wanting to have to utilize advanced techniques and functionality that goes beyond the game. These things are not 'the game' these things are separate logical systems that while it would be great to have as an option... it should by no means be expected that a player utilize these functions to achieve what would otherwise be basic gameplay systems. Granted I think the whole electrical system needs a bit of an overhaul.

It really comes back to that thing though where what YOU find fun, others might not. It's entirely up to the devs to decide how they want to do it, but I would highly discourage any attempts at forced over complication of the game. Just because YOU like learning and experimenting does not mean everyone does or to the degree that you do.

[FrozenOne]

sounds almost like you are saying people are stupid

Exact oposite. People are not that stupid and in a game where you have many-stepped automated manufacturing pipeline and connect all with belts and pipes, connecting few things with a wire to customize them to player's wishes is neither hard or bothersome as you claim, it exactly fits the main theme of the game.

I do not force anyone to anything, whole topic is more of a "RFC" and attempt at having unified logic/control scheme ahead of time, because i already see some diverging trends, so that.

Otherwise, i think we agree on the rest of the things, and we are runing too long so i'll cut it here.

[ssilk]

ssilk: you say the same as i think, except the "switched something" would be the tresholder. I don't know how you imagine doing logic on analog network carrying all signals. How would that work? How would more complex logical conditions be realized? How would you implement delay/memory on that?

Like MIDI works. I press a key on my master keyboard, a signal is send to my computer, and it plays a tune. The circuit network (and logistic etc) and MIDI standard are very similar! The red and green wires are nothing than different channels.

Complex logical conditions are realized in MIDI in many different ways. For example, often implemented and already in the smart inserters, you can say "play a sound only, if the note signal is higher than x". Often used, when you split a keyboard: the lower keys are bass and the higher keys are some strings or so.
A delay in MIDI is implemented with a device: receive signal x at Chanel y and send it after z seconds as signal v to channel w.
Memory: well. Memory is a feedback of a delay.

This might sound strange, but I'm sure, that this is much more interesting as it sounds. Look for example this:
https://www.google.de/search?q=doepfer+ ... hip=Bilder
They handle the analog signals with it.

Because one important thing was forgotten: we have here a fine lua-API. That is the computer logic! I ask me really, why I should lay kilometers of cable, when I can plug that together in the lua-console?
I do not say you need to learn lua to make that, you would have enough devices! But it's really easy: for a really complex task we need nothing else than a "open device", I plug in a cable (only one!) into it and then open the lua console. Programs like " if signal x is so and signal y so the multiply w with v add z and output that at signal s" are written in 2-3 lines.

The idea is for me, that we don't make another red stone thing, we already have something else. This kind of logic is also much more common to the majority of people, than computer logic. And think logic: the electric circuits are already little computers. Why do we need to built simple logic? No one on any factory ever would come to the idea "oh, let's make a flip flop, which is about 2 meters in quadrate. No! They say "the valve is controlled by this SPS ( https://www.google.de/search?q=sps&hl=d ... hip=Bilder) and I can change later, which conditions will make the valve open and close.

[FrozenOne]

Bump for developer commentary of the OP.

I'd really like to know if you have some complete plan how to tackle these things.