Player crafting speed research

[ssilk]

But hey, you'd spend more time researching the speed than crafting those two refineries anyway.

Its not just the refineries though; needing an extra few turrets and mining drill for an outpost, as another example.

Ok, now it's not only the refineries, now it's also turrets and mining drills.

I see a systematic. I don't know if you see it: Everytime you the player needs something you need to craft it now.

There is a simple trick: crafting before the player needs it. That spares some time.

Examples:
- every time I craft belts I craft wheels afterwards.
- when I crafted inserters I craft basic circuits afterwards (or pic up some).
- every time when I discover new patches of resources I craft miners. Many miners. And poles. And belts.
- when I researched oil industry, the first thing I do is crafting some oil refineries. I do that, while I optimize resource-flow.
- There is no question, that I need an assembly for turrets. It's a question of survive or not.

Just a question: Isn't this need to increase the crafting speed not just a fix for a flaw in the players gameplay?

[roman566]

@ssilk

Bulk item vs single item vs 'I need this NOW and not in ten minutes it will take me to run to the base, pick up missing stuff and run back'. This is where improved player crafting speed comes in. When you do not have the crafting line next to you and reaching it would take too much time.

[Adil]

Here's protip: pick all the needed stuff BEFORE leaving in the wild.
All the ammo, turrets and walls were deliberately made long to be crafted in one of the updates, exactly so that player didn't just prance around puking them out of his magical abdomen. This way at least when you're about to war, you should take it seriously and think a couple of minutes ahead.

Factorio is a game about logistics and complex assembly after all, simply running with a pair of basic resources, that are readily turned into whatever desired would turn it in a petty clone of Total Annihilation. Without the merits of both TA and Factorio.

[TuckJohn]

But hey, you'd spend more time researching the speed than crafting those two refineries anyway.

Its not just the refineries though; needing an extra few turrets and mining drill for an outpost, as another example.

Ok, now it's not only the refineries, now it's also turrets and mining drills.

I see a systematic. I don't know if you see it: Everytime you the player needs something you need to craft it now.

There is a simple trick: crafting before the player needs it. That spares some time.

Examples:
- every time I craft belts I craft wheels afterwards.
- when I crafted inserters I craft basic circuits afterwards (or pic up some).
- every time when I discover new patches of resources I craft miners. Many miners. And poles. And belts.
- when I researched oil industry, the first thing I do is crafting some oil refineries. I do that, while I optimize resource-flow.
- There is no question, that I need an assembly for turrets. It's a question of survive or not.

Just a question: Isn't this need to increase the crafting speed not just a fix for a flaw in the players gameplay?

Yes. I see your point, and I usually do that. Another example is underground pipes. I know that I should set up production for them, but never get around to it.
On the other hand, I have been playing with the mod that adds player crafting speed research(With no other mods, just to see how it would play), and It is a really nice research that immediately effects how I play. The game needs more research like that. In fact, I don't think that there is any other research like that in the vanilla game(excluding the toolbelt upgrade, of course). Back to the underground pipes example, I no longer have to wait for them to craft, I can get them almost as fast as I place them(which is not that fast...).

[ssilk]

I need this NOW

It is a really nice research that immediately effects how I play. The game needs more research like that. In fact, I don't think that there is any other research like that in the vanilla game(excluding the toolbelt upgrade, of course)

I think this is part of the game:

- What do I need in a minute?
- Oh, when I'm here I can also take that, cause I might need it afterwards.
- How much does it take to set up this one? a minute What do I spare? 2 minutes. Then let's build it instead of crafting.
- Oh, it's enough to just take pipes with me, cause the underground pipes can be crafted very fast. And I need pipes for so many other things.
- What? It takes endless to make refineries? Then automate it.

I think that is the essence of this discussion: thinking forward, planning, trying to make NOT EVERYTHING yourself, but sometimes it's better to make it yourself.

Is this a good part of the game in Factorio or not? Is it better to craft the stuff, instead trying to automate the production?

In my opinion not, but - well - who am I, that I tell, how to play Factorio...

... maybe I should make a vote out of this question? What do other players think?

Think also in this direction: There are many suggestions around, which want, that the crafting time and total crafting time of the queue is displayed before crafting/while crafting. So that the player has a chance to calculate that himself: 4 minutes? Then it's faster to automate it, right?
And some more suggestions into that direction. I think that should be tried first.

[TuckJohn]

I think that is the essence of this discussion: thinking forward, planning, trying to make NOT EVERYTHING yourself, but sometimes it's better to make it yourself.

Is this a good part of the game in Factorio or not? Is it better to craft the stuff, instead trying to automate the production?

In my opinion not, but - well - who am I, that I tell, how to play Factorio...

... maybe I should make a vote out of this question? What do other players think?

Think also in this direction: There are many suggestions around, which want, that the crafting time and total crafting time of the queue is displayed before crafting/while crafting. So that the player has a chance to calculate that himself: 4 minutes? Then it's faster to automate it, right?
And some more suggestions into that direction. I think that should be tried first.

A straw poll cant hurt

Also, I come from a mere ~250 hours of playtime, and can see where you are coming from in regards to "taking too long? set up production!" mentality.. But I still remember starting out way back in 0.11, back when I took forever to set up green science, and rarely used more then 4 labs. When I was playing on that first playthough(not mentioning the horrific factory), I never even considered setting up production for assemblers and inserters

Also, ssilik, I would recommend that you install the crafting speed mod to one of your worlds, and just play with it for a couple of hours. It really makes the game funner to play.

[orzelek]

Tbh I don't see a point behind automating assembler production. Not playing vanilla - more materials needed and more marks of assemblers present.
To make it fully automated I'd need at least 3-4 (later 5) assemblers that would need to be supplied with various different products. And when at stage of game when I'm using Mk 3-4 assemblers I rarely have a proper roboport net for various reasons.
So it's much more handy to have various intermediates on hand (since they can be used to make different things also) then carry stack of assemblers (and then also stacks of other machines).
I could automate it if I'd plan to build 100's of them in short time - never happened till now.

[ssilk]

Also, ssilik, I would recommend that you install the crafting speed mod to one of your worlds, and just play with it for a couple of hours. It really makes the game funner to play.

I have played it and I really don't see the point. But that is perhaps, because I already very used to think forward in this direction.
It is for me very satisfying to know: I have made a machine, that can do the same things as me, but 10 times faster. It's about the same feeling as I had when I bought my Roomba and calculated, how much time I spare every week.

(When I think about it it gets really stupid: I bought the Roomba to have more time, but I use it mainly for playing more Factorio, where I also build machines, that should spare me time. Maybr at this point I should stop thinking)

[TimmPure]

I'm with ssilk on this one. Not a huge fan of the idea of increased player crafting speed, unless there is some serious drawback involved (e.g. consuming certain resources in exchange for the increased crafting speed).

This is a logistics game; the logistics are meant to be challenging, otherwise the whole game would be a breeze.

[TuckJohn]

I realize that most readers are probably against it, but I have another point to bring up- The game need more research like follower robot count, research that you will probably only do near/post-endgame that takes insane resources for a negligible reward...e.g. research to make sure that you can continue using your labs for as long as possible after endgame.

[ssilk]

I made a poll out of it: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =5&t=16681

I thought this subject is big enough to be discussed more deeply and with a broader user-base...