Player/Cargo teleporters?

[ssilk]

Silk, if i where to transport something across half the map, i din't would only ttransport one thing.
Thats in efficent to begin with. And whatever the chois of transportation is, it's in efficent, if you have to span a large distance,
you want as many needet materials and things as possible with you. Because you want to make the trip as seldom as possible.

I still try to keep it general to avoid total off-topic.

I don'T know about roboports but i didn't see why i'd have to fill a whole stack in?

You need to insert the roboports into a wagon, right? Currently you need to make a wagon of filtered stacks (one stack is for the roboports) and then insert the roboports. The inserter stops only, if the stack in the wagon are full. But you explain it yourself:

a stack uses the same space as a singelport. If you want to fill it automaticly true then only 1 is hard to get, but thats not the trains fault, that problem would persist with everything which would be automaticly feed for transportation. If you just want one singel item, you'd have to feed it manualy in any case i think.

It lasts too long, Takezu! Simply that. I've played that too much, to say, it can take an hour to bring one stupid item to an outpost. Doing it "by hand" is a) too slow, b) too stupid. This is Factorio, try to automate evrything.
In other words: It should take some time, yes, but not more than a minute or two. It should cost some, the more you transport, the most costs. And the most important: The play should not be forced to return.

[Takezu]

As soon as you research inserter stacksize bonus, every transportation of singel items is for naught

It would only work if your transport"box" is a logistic thing and the item in question comes from a belt, as said not the trains fault. Neither would it be the fault of any other transportvehicle whatever it is.

That has nothing to do with new longrange transportation methods, thats more the wish for Wire conditions on Cargowagons/train, then it would be easiely possible to send a singel item on track. And that doesn'T need teleportation in vanilla either.
A wire condition work if item count under 1 stop if item count equals 1 would do the trick.

But that would be the case for any transportation method, regardless if it's by car train pony intercontinantelrocket or who knows what

To come back, teleportation is instant item/player/whatever transfer, and thats a thing i really belive would be imbalanced as hell.
If i've an outpost at the back of the beyond, it's only right that it takes time that goods send there reach it.
It means i've to plan in advance, yes it means work and thinking, but if i've such an ouptost,
then there must be something worth it, else i wouldn't set it up in the first place.
And Faster trains with less cargo, or as said heliports with cargohelicopter seem to me be a much better alternativ as teleportation.

[ssilk]

It doesn't make sense for any discussion, if one says "In general it makes sense under that conditions" and the other "But not in this case".

[vampiricdust]

Alright, so it seems that teleporters come down to player's quality of game play. I really hate forgetting something and having to make a huge trip back for something. I know it's my fault, but it'd be nice if eventually there's an open to address it. Logistic bots scale really badly and trains are rather infrastructure heavy.

I think logistic planes are a better fit for the game, but man was the teleportation tubes from buildcraft really fun & useful. They can save setting up hundreds of tiles of pipes, belts, tracks, or roboports. Teleportation of any kind should use massive amounts of power to the point it's really not worth teleporting tons of stuff unless you've got gigawatts of spare power. Since it seems planes were already thought to be included, I think they should be smaller cargo than a train, but work like logistic bots. They can do "drops" to bring you stuff or haul stuff to and from airports.

I would say Ssilk it's not about reducing complexity, but more about preventing tedious boredom. Playing a game shouldn't be an exercise in repetitive boring tasks. Players should be able to spend their time designing & building new things.

[Takezu]

If you want a minecraft comparison, think of Thermal Expension. Tesseracts for days, teleport all the things, who cares its for free (almost).

Thats what i meant, plop down done ... can'T see the fun...
Good they where for beginnigs hard to come by but sooner or later you've just enough to teleport everything even if it was only 50blocks away.
Now the thing is that are mod features and where never intendet to be vanilla and that was good as it was.

But good point, there is something missing, a method of moving smaller freights across long distances.
And Planes or Helicopters, which i think would fit even better, fit vanilla perfectly, teleportation on the other hand, i think not really.

And Ssilk: I'Ve meant that in any case your "Cargobox" has to be logistics/wire compatible, and the item has to come from a belt, to ensure that you only transfer one item, after researching inserter stack boni. Regardles of choosen method of transportation your inserter would transfer more otherwise. Maybe ther might be some differrent methods that i'm unaware of but in any case, if your inserter can pick up more then one item he will, regardless if its a train car or something else to which it transfers.
Now i can'T see how that implies that i've talked about in that case that in other cases something else? Care to tell me what i'm missing?
Maybe even in german to ward off missunderstandings?

[vampiricdust]

Thats what i meant, plop down done ... can'T see the fun...

It's not really about being fun in of itself, but about avoiding the parts the take away from the fun. I never played Thermal Expansion, but in buildcraft I used the teleport pipes to avoid having to mine out a path for pipes or I didn't want to lay 50+ pipes down over terrain. I could plop it down & move on to playing with it. I don't see the fun in laying belts or pipes 50+ tiles without using them in between. Pipes are especially annoying, but I use trains or bots where I can. I want to get stuff running so I can build the layouts and get stuff made so I can use it. The teleport pipes used frequencies so you had to manage your frequency usage and control how much goes where. It still adds the logistics fun without laying hundreds of belts, tracks, or pipes.

I'm all for the plane though. I was so excited to see in the campaign. I thought it would be interesting endgame transportation. Planes wouldn't have the collision problem or requires thousands of rails all the time. Though maybe with the rail improvements, but they still can't deliver to you outside the rail network.

[ssilk]

I've made a new thread about it: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... =5&t=13200 Discussing the (missing?) 4th type of transport!

[bobucles]

So from what I gather, a teleporter that only costs energy is totally out of the question. Even if it only moves a small quantity of items as suggested, players would simply build a gorrillion solar panels to take care of it, and forget about trains and never build logistic networks and hell freezes over and all sorts of bad stuff. But players still have need of an ultra fast, low capacity network to deal with their odds and ends. So what if the teleportation cost raw materials? Say that the teleport pad works like this instead:

- requires "energon cubes" to function. On the low end these cost some advanced circuits/steel (2-5 + 4-10), or on the high end a processing unit and more steel (10-20).
- Cargo pad still has a low throughput (10-30 seconds of charging) and requires a large energy charge(1-2 MW, 20-60MJ). One packet costs one cube, outgoing.
- Cargo pads only link 2 points in space, A to B.

- Player pad is larger and meaner, taking 60-120 seconds to charge @ 5-10MW and a large number of cubes (10-20).
- All player pads are network connected, allowing one pad to go to any other pad.
- Bonus: Players can respawn on a pad, consuming only the energy charge. Because lets face it you already lost all your items after dying, and teleporting in new items is still expensive.


The main thing is that you can't teleport raw goods without burning WAY MORE resources than it's worth. The main logistic "exploit" is fixed, letting the pad network deal with small numbers of HIGH priority items. Pads still have monolithic energy requirements because a gorrillion solar panels is still a lot of raw infrastructure and even one pad should be difficult for a small base. Teleporting from home is easier because it has the infrastructure to make cubes, but teleporting TO home requires building cubes on site or hauling them in. Burning cubes to move cubes is just asking for trouble.