Roads (stone, asphalt)/moving+driving quicker

[sirspikey]

After playing a while now, I feel that once flight etc. has been researched the logistics gets to easy.
How about removing that flying disc and use roads?
The difference with roads instead of the transport lines railroads etc is that a truck would be able to move freely around the road network, you set its loading targets and of it goes. Somewhat like the flying thingy but now you have to make space for roads, stoplights loading stations etc.

[zer0t3ch]

After playing a while now, I feel that once flight etc. has been researched the logistics gets to easy.
How about removing that flying disc and use roads?
The difference with roads instead of the transport lines railroads etc is that a truck would be able to move freely around the road network, you set its loading targets and of it goes. Somewhat like the flying thingy but now you have to make space for roads, stoplights loading stations etc.

+1

It's a good idea, but I think it may be a little much to implement, because it would basically be a whole new system from scratch, with AI and pathfinding, which can be pretty difficult depending on how different things are managed in the game's code.

[sirspikey]

nah dunno, pathfinding on marked road is no biggy, the loading/unloading is already there, filters to. The only difference between the truck and the UFO-thing would be the paths, I would suspect. I don't know how the code is built but I would guess that most of the functions are already done, with the trains etc.

[zer0t3ch]

nah dunno, pathfinding on marked road is no biggy, the loading/unloading is already there, filters to. The only difference between the truck and the UFO-thing would be the paths, I would suspect. I don't know how the code is built but I would guess that most of the functions are already done, with the trains etc.

I've never used trains before, but I don't think they do any pathfinding. I also have never coded pathfinding before, so it could be easy, could be hard. Provided pathfinding is relatively easy to the experienced coder, it would be easy to implement.

[ssilk]

See this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*_search_algorithm
Like the animation, which shows very good how the algorithm works.
Factorio uses for the creepers a modified A*. And of course, the trains need a path finding too.

[sirspikey]

that is pathfinding in an open area. With roads, wich are fixed paths with very few options, you don't need that, just some simple boolean for the crossings.

[zer0t3ch]

See this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A*_search_algorithm
Like the animation, which shows very good how the algorithm works.
Factorio uses for the creepers a modified A*. And of course, the trains need a path finding too.

That's very cool, I forgot about creeper pathfinding. Theoretically one could just use the creeper pathfinding. Imagine the truck breaking down a wall to get to a road on the other side...

[Holy-Fire]

that is pathfinding in an open area. With roads, wich are fixed paths with very few options, you don't need that, just some simple boolean for the crossings.

And how does the truck know which boolean to choose...? It's exactly the same problem.

I agree though that it's simple, A* is a basic algorithm which is pretty fast in the setting we're talking about.
The point it can get complicated is if the trucks can obstruct each other. Coordinating them not to make one big jam is a challenge.


About the idea, I think it's ok that logistics should be simplified at a later point in the game, maybe flying logistic robots need to be nerfed (their research cost was already increased in 0.6) but not removed. And I don't see much point in trucks as an intermediate.

[ssilk]

I mean the same. Roads could be great, when I think to desktop traffic tycoon deluxe, they are really nice to look at. But for the game of DTTD they never played a big role. And so with any other traffic simulation game I know. Real fun was, when there where tracks and how to place them, so that there is no jam. For streets this wasn't fun, because it was always some jam when I begun to use it more.
It would be for factorio the same: some cars/truck/robots drive/walk along the streets, at some point we have jam, and we can't do so much against it.
So I like the logistic robots, because they solve this problem of bringing A from B to C very elegant.
Roads begin to make fun, when we have for example a number of traffic lights at some crossings, some sensors and we need to optimize the traffic lights for the best flow. But that is a completely different problem as building roads.
So I want to say, that I see roads just for speeding up the game a bit, for orientation, and for more order in the factory. The rest can come later.

[sirspikey]

that is pathfinding in an open area. With roads, wich are fixed paths with very few options, you don't need that, just some simple boolean for the crossings.

And how does the truck know which boolean to choose...? It's exactly the same problem.

I agree though that it's simple, A* is a basic algorithm which is pretty fast in the setting we're talking about.
The point it can get complicated is if the trucks can obstruct each other. Coordinating them not to make one big jam is a challenge.


About the idea, I think it's ok that logistics should be simplified at a later point in the game, maybe flying logistic robots need to be nerfed (their research cost was already increased in 0.6) but not removed. And I don't see much point in trucks as an intermediate.

The truck gets a already calculated path to follow when setting a target. The calculation is made by first naming the crossings C1, C2, C3... etc. and then the distance between those that are connected, this is swiftly done when you build the road/crossing. Then the truck gets the 'list' of crossings it has to pass. The only 'testing' algorithm needed is the one calculating the fastest rout and as long as you dont fill the whole map with roads, that calculation will be very fast. The boolean comes in when the truck has to recognize turns, signals etc.

The traffic jams that can occur just adds to the fun

[zer0t3ch]

that is pathfinding in an open area. With roads, wich are fixed paths with very few options, you don't need that, just some simple boolean for the crossings.

And how does the truck know which boolean to choose...? It's exactly the same problem.

I agree though that it's simple, A* is a basic algorithm which is pretty fast in the setting we're talking about.
The point it can get complicated is if the trucks can obstruct each other. Coordinating them not to make one big jam is a challenge.


About the idea, I think it's ok that logistics should be simplified at a later point in the game, maybe flying logistic robots need to be nerfed (their research cost was already increased in 0.6) but not removed. And I don't see much point in trucks as an intermediate.

The truck gets a already calculated path to follow when setting a target. The calculation is made by first naming the crossings C1, C2, C3... etc. and then the distance between those that are connected, this is swiftly done when you build the road/crossing. Then the truck gets the 'list' of crossings it has to pass. The only 'testing' algorithm needed is the one calculating the fastest rout and as long as you dont fill the whole map with roads, that calculation will be very fast. The boolean comes in when the truck has to recognize turns, signals etc.

The traffic jams that can occur just adds to the fun

Stop lights could be very easy to implement.

[3LollipopZ]

long time lurker, first time poster.

One of my life long desires is to find a way to integrate the train and the conveyor belts. Perhaps the ability to put trains on conveyors, or carts/mobile chests of some sort over the top of conveyors.
Adds the ability to drop items from the chest directly onto the conveyor without the need of a loader / unloader. Like a silo essentially.

Long term I would like to see a mine that I can attach to a cart, that is attached to a conveyor. When it runs out of resources I can kick it along another square and it starts mining (drawing power from the conveyor / line itself). Integrate power onto the conveyor so that only things attached to a rail / conveyor receives power, but mines, mobile lasers attached to trains, trains, etc. all can be powered. I could build a track and zig zag it through the fields of coal, mining carts can mine 3x3 or 4x4 over the top of the track, dropping produce onto the track. Turn off collisions and make 10 of them to service the line.

I just love the conveyors that's all and it would be nice to see those used more.

[ssilk]

One of my life long desires is to find a way to integrate the train and the conveyor belts. Perhaps the ability to put trains on conveyors, or carts/mobile chests of some sort over the top of conveyors.

They said, that they want to implement parts of the container concept.
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 3&start=10

Adds the ability to drop items from the chest directly onto the conveyor without the need of a loader / unloader. Like a silo essentially.

I really like that. This would speed up the filling of a wagon and made the infrastructure much easier, because with that you need not so much inserters.

Long term I would like to see a mine that I can attach to a cart, that is attached to a conveyor. When it runs out of resources I can kick it along another square and it starts mining (drawing power from the conveyor / line itself). Integrate power onto the conveyor so that only things attached to a rail / conveyor receives power, but mines, mobile lasers attached to trains, trains, etc. all can be powered. I could build a track and zig zag it through the fields of coal, mining carts can mine 3x3 or 4x4 over the top of the track, dropping produce onto the track. Turn off collisions and make 10 of them to service the line.

Do you mean more or less like the harvesters in Dune or Command&Conquer?
The robot-station is eventually also a concept, which might match that. ( https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 3&start=10 )

I just love the conveyors that's all and it would be nice to see those used more.

Yes, I think we love them all. they are really something which looks easy at beginning, but needs some knowledge to use efficiently. More use-cases are a good idea.

[3LollipopZ]

Do you mean more or less like the harvesters in Dune or Command&Conquer?
The robot-station is eventually also a concept, which might match that. ( viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1073&start=10 )

I was more thinking of avoiding the path finding code, which would be required as in Dune or C&C (although I love the Dune feel to this game - maybe someone should do a Dune2 mod), and more like automated container mines, attached to the conveyors. Possibly a different type of conveyor, called powered conveyors, which would enable you to attach mines and turrets to them.

I personally don't like the robot idea because I want to feel like the sole smart being on this planet; robots start to break that feeling for me.
To me factorio is all about automation and supplying your beast of an impersonal factory with as many resources as possible to fill my desires.

[ssilk]

"powered conveyor":
A straight belt, where the mines can "walk" aside as long as there are mineable stuff?

"... feel like the sole smart being on this planet; robots start to break that feeling for me."

Hm. This is a very good aspect I cannot ignore!

[zer0t3ch]

Do you mean more or less like the harvesters in Dune or Command&Conquer?
The robot-station is eventually also a concept, which might match that. ( viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1073&start=10 )

-snip- powered conveyors, which would enable you to attach mines and turrets to them.

+1 This shounds awesome. I can just imagine the row of turrets moving across my whole base, or a circle of moving mines.

[matheod]

Hello,

I've got a little suggestion :

Why not add stone road (I'm not sure of the english word) which will make the player move quicker when walking on ?

Thanks for reading me

[Artman40]

You'd need some asphalt. From oil.

[Khyron]

This has already been suggested and the developer has said he wants to make some kind of stone floor.

[Prezombie]

In the meantime, conveyer belts can do this mostly.