Uses for labs in the late late game for calculating orbits

[indjev99]

I was not sure whether I should put this in Balancing or Suggestions.
So there is late game and late late game. Late game is like where is rocket defense now. But after you research everything there is no use for the labs; consequently there is no use for a big part of your factory. I propose this: in the late late game(where you will build space stuff) before a launch you need to calculate the trajectory (or orbit) and stuff and for that you need labs. So it behaves kind of like research, but it does not end and is not mandatory so the longer you do it the smaller the chance of your rocket crashing gets. If you just launch it, it will almost certainly crash, but if you have been calculating it for long, a bit more time will have a very little effect. I suggest using an equation like this: 1-(1-base)*(1-k)^(units*m) So units is just like research units but calculation units, base is the chance of success without any calculations k determines how bended the graph will be, and m how stretched it will be. So increasing base will increase the values in the beginning, but it has little to no effect later, decreasing m stretches the graph horizontally and the interesting part: increasing k bends the graph, the more bended it is the bigger is effect in the beginning and the smaller it is later.

0<k<1
0<m
0<=base<1

Graphs of the function with different values for k, m and base

Small k:

Big k:


Small m:

Big m:

Pay attention to the numbers on the Units axis!!!

Small base (0):

Big base:

Good values I found

k=0,005
m=0,3
base=0,1

With those you get 80% with 1000 units and 90% with 1450 units.

Also if there are more complicated rockets or something like that the calculation time for one unit could be bigger.
P.S. If you want the Excel file (Koub added the formula that allows estimation of units needed to achieve any percentage) and experiment, here is a link to download it:

Chance of Succcess.rar

(32.97 KiB) Downloaded 177 times

P.P.S I know I'm a nerd.

[Koub]

The link you provided is a picture, not an Excel file
... And you're not a nerd, just a Factorio player

[indjev99]

The link you provided is a picture, not an Excel file
... And you're not a nerd, just a Factorio player

Edited. Wrong copy/paste. And, man, you should have seen how many graphs I made for a extracurricular math assignment just for fun (and a small sum of money as a reward). And it was not even by a teacher, it was given by a friend (from England) of our English teacher from the past year.

[Koub]

I took the liberty to add a small formula that allows you to estimate how many units you would need with the initial values to achieve any percentage.

[indjev99]

I took the liberty to add a small formula that allows you to estimate how many units you would need with the initial values to achieve any percentage.

OK, thanks. I put the file with the formula in the original post (I gave you credit of course). I hope that's ok?

[Koub]

Yeah, sure

[ssilk]

This is an interesting idea, and becase it is not about balancing (which is about changing existing stuff) I will move it to suggestions.

[DanGio]

I like it. That makes labs useful in late game, and moreover, it demands large variety of production. For now, late game is focused on huge production of electronic circuits and advanced versions... This would make players look for more production of steel/batteries/inserters..., and would incite players to build bigger labs setups.

[Koub]

I must admit I have, after maybe 400+ hours vanilla, decided to use 2 mods , among which infinite search (as long as the endgame content is still in developpment).
This suggestion is really nice, to be able to indefinitely improve one - or more - aspects of endgame once all the standard research finished. I'd love some kind of overall small bonus line, like :
- small bonus to speed : same effect as the modules
- small bonus to inserter speed
- small bonus to energy consumption when active (it would be a malus in fact ) same effect as the modules
- small bonus to power drain
- small bonus to productivity : same effect as the modules
- small bonus to pedestrian movement
- small bonus to vehicle movement
- small bonus to pollution absorption (trees, natural , ...)
- ...

I'd see linear bonuses, with exponential research needed, so that you have strong diminishing returns, but there still is some interest to invest that much.

For example +1% for each level researched, x2 research packs needed for each level. Machine speed 1, 500 of each science packs, +1% speed, Machine speed 2, +1% (cumulative) speed, 1k science packs of each, ...

[ssilk]

Well, that is also thinkable, what I really would miss then is the ability to split my research into smaller units.

PS:I remember an idea, which was about a second type of research: The first (=current) develops the new technologies, but the second (=the new) is for the bonuses.
In the end I think it isn't taken, cause there are no good reasons to implement it, cause it complicates just stuff.

[SHiRKiT]

If we imagine something like this:

- The bonus research never ends.
- To activate it, you need to complete X units of work of each science pack.
- At minimum, you must do an average of Y units of work per minute (for each science pack).
- Every unit of work consumes W science pack.
- Every unit of work takes Z seconds.

So, let's say you have 10 labs, and you must maintain 4 red science per 90 seconds, 3 green science packs, 2 blue science packs and 1 purple science packs.

Imagine each lab takes 20 seconds to complete a work, we need:
- 1 Lab at full time consuming red science
- 1 lab at green + 1 purple pack
- 1 lab for blue science pack (only working half time).

I hope I explained myself well, but I can try to explain it better,

[indjev99]

I must admit I have, after maybe 400+ hours vanilla, decided to use 2 mods , among which infinite search (as long as the endgame content is still in developpment).
This suggestion is really nice, to be able to indefinitely improve one - or more - aspects of endgame once all the standard research finished. I'd love some kind of overall small bonus line, like :
- small bonus to speed : same effect as the modules
- small bonus to inserter speed
- small bonus to energy consumption when active (it would be a malus in fact ) same effect as the modules
- small bonus to power drain
- small bonus to productivity : same effect as the modules
- small bonus to pedestrian movement
- small bonus to vehicle movement
- small bonus to pollution absorption (trees, natural , ...)
- ...

I'd see linear bonuses, with exponential research needed, so that you have strong diminishing returns, but there still is some interest to invest that much. I renamed the topic to "Uses for labs in the late late game for calulating orbits"

For example +1% for each level researched, x2 research packs needed for each level. Machine speed 1, 500 of each science packs, +1% speed, Machine speed 2, +1% (cumulative) speed, 1k science packs of each, ...

If we imagine something like this:

- The bonus research never ends.
- To activate it, you need to complete X units of work of each science pack.
- At minimum, you must do an average of Y units of work per minute (for each science pack).
- Every unit of work consumes W science pack.
- Every unit of work takes Z seconds.

So, let's say you have 10 labs, and you must maintain 4 red science per 90 seconds, 3 green science packs, 2 blue science packs and 1 purple science packs.

Imagine each lab takes 20 seconds to complete a work, we need:
- 1 Lab at full time consuming red science
- 1 lab at green + 1 purple pack
- 1 lab for blue science pack (only working half time).

I hope I explained myself well, but I can try to explain it better,

That's great and stuff, but let's discuss the thing about the calculations since that was my original post.
I renamed the topic to "Uses for labs in the late late game for calculating orbits".

[dee-]

Yup, got the feeling this thread got sidetracked by unrelated ideas.
The OPs idea is somethink I like - cleverly done and well integrating. It will also mean the first launch of a rocket after you got the tech will get postponec, because who will launch something this expensive with an 20% success rate? Many would wait until a success rate of at least 70% or even higher, so you can figure out how much time will be spent doing furhter research. For every launch, I got the impression, as the launch success probabilty would be reset after used

[SHiRKiT]

Sorry, I got sidetracked. But the general idea still matches. Gives uses to 70% of your factory and a reason to keep expanding your factory into catastrophic sizes

[indjev99]

Yup, got the feeling this thread got sidetracked by unrelated ideas.
The OPs idea is somethink I like - cleverly done and well integrating. It will also mean the first launch of a rocket after you got the tech will get postponec, because who will launch something this expensive with an 20% success rate? Many would wait until a success rate of at least 70% or even higher, so you can figure out how much time will be spent doing furhter research. For every launch, I got the impression, as the launch success probabilty would be reset after used

Yeah, my idea is that you go to the research menu after you have setup the rocket and there is an option "calculate orbit" and the progress is not linear but what I described earlier and when you launch, the calculation ends and you can do other stuff with the labs for example if there is anything left for researching or the calculations for another launch, which of course start from the beginning, like they would in real life.

[Ohz]

I love these ideas !
+1