I have played through a few complete games now (built rocket defense 3-4 times) and I am still unclear on the function/purpose of pumps and the use of storage chests.
1st: Pumps - I am referring to the in-line electric pumps here, not the water source pump/pumpjack. When should I be using these? Are they for really long pipelines? I have seen some people talking about how they should be used in conjunction with factories/chemical plants, but I am not sure how.
2nd: Storage chests - I use the logistics system a lot and love it, but I only build provider and requester chests. When I use storage chests, bots just throw any crap in there and it turns into a huge mess. I like an organized base and usually have conveyors for specific products and high volume commodities like copper/iron plates. But my storage chests end up filling with things like copper wire or gears, which is a huge waste of space and bot-hours. I especially don't want all my bots transporting basic raw materials like plates to storage chests, but do like them to supply a few stacks to my personal inventory.
I think I may not be using storage chests properly, and could use some advice from the pros. How do you organize items in storage chests? And are they worth the power/bot-hours they end up using? I like efficiency, and storage chests seem like they just add busywork for my logistics bots. That means resources wasted recharging bots after non-essential trips and the opportunity cost of the bots' time on storage trips leading to supply bottlenecks on the products I actually need them to carry to my factories.
Talking about this leads me to another thing I've wondered about-
3rd: Throughput- Logistics bots vs conveyors- I have read about people using bots for things like unloading trains. Disregard for the sake of discussion the cost difference between all the frames/roboports needed vs a traditional fast dispenser>chest setup, I know this is a significant difference. But if we just focus on throughput volume, do bots really increase that beyond a red or blue belt? And how many bots would it take to equal or exceed the throughput of a belt?
Thanks in advance. This such a great game that gives the player so much to think about.
Please help me understand pumps and storage chests.
Re: Please help me understand pumps and storage chests.
Hello,
regarding your first question:
First, the pumps can be used as a one-way valve, so that the liquid only flows in one direction. This can be usefull for a couple situations, for example the following. You are just prior researching oil processing 2, but your one tank of heavy oil is full. So, you build a second one, but connect the second with a pump. Now, the pump sucks all of the oil from the first into the second.As soon as you have researched oil processing and setup a cracking plant, just rotate the pump 180 degrees, and the pump will empty the tank again. After the tank is empy, you can remove it without loosing the heay oil.
I for example connect the cracking plant to a tank with this setup. As soon as I have too much of one oil type, i fill up the cracking tank, rotate the pump 90 degrees, and shut off the supply for this tank. Now, my 2500 units of whatever i wanted to crack will get cracked, But after this, the crackin just automatically stops. With this setup, it is not possible to crack too much and end up in situation where i'm short of heavy or medium oil. This setup works great if you don't have to crack all the time.
Storage chests are great if you want to actively store some items. To avoid the situation where bots overfill them with other materials, just use passive provider chest. Items from the passive provider chest won't be delivered to storage chest.
I personally use storage chests mainly for constructing or deconstructing items. All Items deconstructed will be brought to the storage chests.
If you wanted to have a supply of one item type bigger than one provider chest, that would be one situation where a storage chest comes in handy. Other than that, i'm better of with just one storage chest for deconstructing.
I have never used logistic robots for unloading a train, so i can't comment on the troughput, but if you have a massive amount of bots and just small distances, i could imagine that using them would bring a higher troughput than belts. Or, if your out of space to put belts down, then logistic robots would help with that.
regarding your first question:
First, the pumps can be used as a one-way valve, so that the liquid only flows in one direction. This can be usefull for a couple situations, for example the following. You are just prior researching oil processing 2, but your one tank of heavy oil is full. So, you build a second one, but connect the second with a pump. Now, the pump sucks all of the oil from the first into the second.As soon as you have researched oil processing and setup a cracking plant, just rotate the pump 180 degrees, and the pump will empty the tank again. After the tank is empy, you can remove it without loosing the heay oil.
I for example connect the cracking plant to a tank with this setup. As soon as I have too much of one oil type, i fill up the cracking tank, rotate the pump 90 degrees, and shut off the supply for this tank. Now, my 2500 units of whatever i wanted to crack will get cracked, But after this, the crackin just automatically stops. With this setup, it is not possible to crack too much and end up in situation where i'm short of heavy or medium oil. This setup works great if you don't have to crack all the time.
Storage chests are great if you want to actively store some items. To avoid the situation where bots overfill them with other materials, just use passive provider chest. Items from the passive provider chest won't be delivered to storage chest.
I personally use storage chests mainly for constructing or deconstructing items. All Items deconstructed will be brought to the storage chests.
If you wanted to have a supply of one item type bigger than one provider chest, that would be one situation where a storage chest comes in handy. Other than that, i'm better of with just one storage chest for deconstructing.
I have never used logistic robots for unloading a train, so i can't comment on the troughput, but if you have a massive amount of bots and just small distances, i could imagine that using them would bring a higher troughput than belts. Or, if your out of space to put belts down, then logistic robots would help with that.
Re: Please help me understand pumps and storage chests.
to follow up, Pumps are a bit awkward to use, but very useful. Say, for instance, you have a storage tank next to some pumpjacks. If you put a pump to push the oil from the jacks into the tank, you can begin to fill the tank without having to wait for the pipes to fill.
Logistics are a nightmare, at first, but there are some basic principles to you can go by:
- Continuous/flow, such as ore to smelters, are often best handled by belts across short or 'long' distances. Trains are better for 'extra long' transportation of items. Bots suck because of recharging.
- High volume flow, such as Iron Bars and Copper Bars, are also better handled via belts
- Irregular, processed goods that have to cross terrain that would be unwieldy to lay belts for are ideal for the logistic network. Steel, Engines, and Blue Pack ingredients are good examples. 'General use' (not being used for other processes) basic circuits are also good candidates.
- Control what goes into the logistic network. Any inserter feeding items into the network should be a smart inserter with a threshold for controlling stock levels. Otherwise, you have an open tap that can overfill your storage.
- Use 'passive providers' for factories within your network so that they always have room for their products.
- Use Active providers to incorporate goods from outside the network, such as a train station. Build a storage cluster nearby.
- Unload ore using fast inserters into chests, with another fast inserter emptying the chest onto (express) belts to the smelters. This can save your bots a significant level of work.
- Storage is good for holding imports (so that trains have room to unload) as well as acting as buffer space so you can use the deconstruction tool. At this point, you can, more or less, fully automate everything you will ever need (construction, deconstruction, and personal logistics).
also
- Normal Inserters are good for most slow processes and exchanges (especially with stack size bonuses), and can pull off of Fast belts, but have extreme difficulty with Express belts. Fast inserters are only required for fast recipes that use multiple ingredients being fed off a common belt.
- Express Belts are best for long carry distances where there are no inserters pulling off the line.
- Split to lower speeds, merge into higher speeds. If you need to 'branch' an express lane that has to keep going, the 'branch' should be at most a fast belt. Most mining operations should consist mostly of basic belts merging into fast belts, express for exceptionally large operations.
- Bots love short hops across built-over or impassable terrain. They hate being slated for trans-continental routes. Save a bot, build a belt.
Logistics are a nightmare, at first, but there are some basic principles to you can go by:
- Continuous/flow, such as ore to smelters, are often best handled by belts across short or 'long' distances. Trains are better for 'extra long' transportation of items. Bots suck because of recharging.
- High volume flow, such as Iron Bars and Copper Bars, are also better handled via belts
- Irregular, processed goods that have to cross terrain that would be unwieldy to lay belts for are ideal for the logistic network. Steel, Engines, and Blue Pack ingredients are good examples. 'General use' (not being used for other processes) basic circuits are also good candidates.
- Control what goes into the logistic network. Any inserter feeding items into the network should be a smart inserter with a threshold for controlling stock levels. Otherwise, you have an open tap that can overfill your storage.
- Use 'passive providers' for factories within your network so that they always have room for their products.
- Use Active providers to incorporate goods from outside the network, such as a train station. Build a storage cluster nearby.
- Unload ore using fast inserters into chests, with another fast inserter emptying the chest onto (express) belts to the smelters. This can save your bots a significant level of work.
- Storage is good for holding imports (so that trains have room to unload) as well as acting as buffer space so you can use the deconstruction tool. At this point, you can, more or less, fully automate everything you will ever need (construction, deconstruction, and personal logistics).
also
- Normal Inserters are good for most slow processes and exchanges (especially with stack size bonuses), and can pull off of Fast belts, but have extreme difficulty with Express belts. Fast inserters are only required for fast recipes that use multiple ingredients being fed off a common belt.
- Express Belts are best for long carry distances where there are no inserters pulling off the line.
- Split to lower speeds, merge into higher speeds. If you need to 'branch' an express lane that has to keep going, the 'branch' should be at most a fast belt. Most mining operations should consist mostly of basic belts merging into fast belts, express for exceptionally large operations.
- Bots love short hops across built-over or impassable terrain. They hate being slated for trans-continental routes. Save a bot, build a belt.
-
diegokilla
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Re: Please help me understand pumps and storage chests.
"Save a bot, build a belt." I lol'd
Personally, I try not to use bots for anything other than personal convenience, ie:
Repairing and replacing damaged walls, as well as keeping certain items in my inventory topped off.
This is not to say that bots can be super effective at moving various low-frequency-use items (blue flask, engines, processing units) from A-B. It's just that the largest draw of Factorio, imho, is the logistics of moving things to where they need to be. To me, it is like a puzzle. I have to find the best, most efficient, most expedient, and most effective use of the parts that I have available to me that will yield acceptable results.
Personally, I try not to use bots for anything other than personal convenience, ie:
Repairing and replacing damaged walls, as well as keeping certain items in my inventory topped off.
This is not to say that bots can be super effective at moving various low-frequency-use items (blue flask, engines, processing units) from A-B. It's just that the largest draw of Factorio, imho, is the logistics of moving things to where they need to be. To me, it is like a puzzle. I have to find the best, most efficient, most expedient, and most effective use of the parts that I have available to me that will yield acceptable results.
Re: Please help me understand pumps and storage chests.
there are a few good applications.
Pumps can be used after long sections of pipe to force-fill a tank at the end. Otherwise, fluid will proportionately fill the tank and every section of pipe. If you have an un-barreling plant connected to the pipeline, using pumps can ensure you aren't back-filling the pipes going to (likely drained at this point) pumpjacks.
The fastest way to unload a train and dispsense goods is to have 14 arrays of fast/smart inserter->active provider -> storage all adjacent to each other per wagon. The inserters will empty the wagon in seconds, and the bots will then vacate the items to where they need to go or into the adjacent storage. Bots have a higher throughput than inserters by virtue of sheer volume, so having the two chests next to one another means almost no travel time. Useful for a rapid dump of goods
Pumps can be used after long sections of pipe to force-fill a tank at the end. Otherwise, fluid will proportionately fill the tank and every section of pipe. If you have an un-barreling plant connected to the pipeline, using pumps can ensure you aren't back-filling the pipes going to (likely drained at this point) pumpjacks.
The fastest way to unload a train and dispsense goods is to have 14 arrays of fast/smart inserter->active provider -> storage all adjacent to each other per wagon. The inserters will empty the wagon in seconds, and the bots will then vacate the items to where they need to go or into the adjacent storage. Bots have a higher throughput than inserters by virtue of sheer volume, so having the two chests next to one another means almost no travel time. Useful for a rapid dump of goods
Re: Please help me understand pumps and storage chests.
Some very good suggestions and strategies here, thank you guys.
I got a follow-up question to pumps: Does a pipeline fill up every time if there is enough fluid incoming, no matter how long it is? Or do i need pumps at some point just to keep the pressure stable? It seems like a good idea to use pumps for "transport pipelines", because else you got lots of fluid unused in the pipes; I just want to know if it would even work without those pumps (say, when you're missing the tech or the parts for motors).
I got a follow-up question to pumps: Does a pipeline fill up every time if there is enough fluid incoming, no matter how long it is? Or do i need pumps at some point just to keep the pressure stable? It seems like a good idea to use pumps for "transport pipelines", because else you got lots of fluid unused in the pipes; I just want to know if it would even work without those pumps (say, when you're missing the tech or the parts for motors).