Friday Facts #84 - The wedding day preprations

[Drury]

Will the steam version remain DRM-free? Can existing purchases be transferred to steam and also the other way around, registering an account here with a steam purchase?

http://www.factorio.com/faq

that's got you covered

[cptepicness]

I have an idea for the behemoth!
Considering they are to replace hordes of big biters ( which is a very good bit into the game) why not put out a small chance of a behemoth attempting to "colonize" near the player's base. They will be aggressively try to get closer and closer to the player base. (Similar to how some players might use a series of roboports and turret blueprints to invade a biter nest)
Since behemoths are pretty big of a deal, they should have an appropriate warning and not just the usual warning you get when turrets go off. Or just let the warning go off but have a list of what enemies is it engaging.

To sum it up.
>Behemoths will have a rare chance of making a new nest near the player base
>Warnings should have a list of what enemies they are engaging

[jerrycheng]

@kovarex The new beam effect is great! By the way, I am wondering what is the meaning of "give us a lot of freedom if we want to use on other places in the game"? It is better if you could provide some example. Thank you very much:D

[kovarex]

@kovarex The new beam effect is great! By the way, I am wondering what is the meaning of "give us a lot of freedom if we want to use on other places in the game"? It is better if you could provide some example. Thank you very much:D

I mean, that it could be used in some factory machinery in the future.

[kovarex]

@kovarex The new beam effect is great! By the way, I am wondering what is the meaning of "give us a lot of freedom if we want to use on other places in the game"? It is better if you could provide some example. Thank you very much:D

I mean, that it could be used in some factory machinery in the future.

[Alekthefirst]

@kovarex The new beam effect is great! By the way, I am wondering what is the meaning of "give us a lot of freedom if we want to use on other places in the game"? It is better if you could provide some example. Thank you very much:D

I mean, that it could be used in some factory machinery in the future.

Awwwwww yissssssssss!
3rd age highly advanced electrical machinery here i come!

[MF-]

@kovarex
How did you deal with accumulators that reside in more networks at once?
Do you "merge" only those in the same networks & same charge?
Or do you simply ignore them for generally not being worth it?

[kovarex]

@kovarex
How did you deal with accumulators that reside in more networks at once?
Do you "merge" only those in the same networks & same charge?
Or do you simply ignore them for generally not being worth it?

I don't ignore The exact list of conditions is here:

• Same amount of energy stored
• Same combination of networks it is in
• Same charge animation cooldown
• Same discharge animation cooldown

In other words, they are stored only when their update would be exactly the same anyway.

There are some problems, like splitting a group when part of the accumulators are set to have different energy by a script, or some of them get to additional network etc. But it is all handled properly as long as I didn't make a mistake

[quinor]

Don't worry, we will test that intensively. No bug will hide!

[ssilk]

I'm some kind of disappointed when I read about reducing number of enemies

instead of group of 20 big biters, 3 behemoths can be sent

My feeling was "uh? but we need the opposite...?"

My reasons:
- I think this pure number of enemies, that are there and come is one of the great features the game has. This makes this feeling of "I'm really lost, I'm alone on this planet, everything around don't likes me ".
- this goes directly to a direction where I need stronger weapons instead of more. Which is ok. I think DyTech mod is a good example how it ends, I like this overwhelming power of the enemies, when they come step by step. But there is a difference between masses of (big) enemies and a big boss enemy with entourage. And this change goes into that direction of "a biter queen is attacking every 3 minutes". Which is stupid. (I didn't say there should be no biter queen or similar, but it makes no sense to have them regularly).

I explain a bit more: I thought always, that Factorio has this kind of "tower defense"-subgame. Enemies come in waves, they get stronger, they follow more or less stupidly a path, you have towers, that defend the base, and so on.
My thought, how this should work, was: they prefer to come at night, they should not follow stupidly one path (maybe, they retreat to reinforce even stronger? Or they avoid the smell of the dead ( https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... ilit=smell ), there should be some kind of useful traps (mines is such a thing for example, to elongate the waves and slow down) and they come in MASSES, when you do nasty stuff to them. Like starting a rocket. Waves of up to 500 enemies, cause otherwise this whole afford would be useless.

500? Yes, why not? I think this makes the difference to similar games. And with 500 I mean of course not only biters/spitters, that is of course impossible. Just 500 enemies, an army.

Kovarex, I think you are clever (otherwise I really wouldn't be here ) and you thought already a lot about it, cause I would solve this situation with new types of enemies, that don't need so much CPU as the biters/spitters, like new flying enemies (interesting: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=9419 ), or stupid (flying) guards that protect just a biter/spitter, or underground enemies, which are not really seen most the time. If they are in this masses, they don't need to be animated in that details. Couldn't be seen. They can come in groups, dig tunnels, jump... There are endless ideas...

But I'm not really sure, so I just want to post my (really not so important) concerns.

[Alekthefirst]

Waves of up to 500 enemies, cause otherwise this whole afford would be useless.

500? Yes, why not?

I like the idea.
Introducing sudden paranoia about some massive biter army waiting out there for you will surely intensify a playthrough, and force the player to build radar outposts everywhere.
Roboports and auto-replace of walls makes much more sense when you need a 2 layer deep defence system consisting of 5 layer thick walls and three lines of laser turrets to survive

[Ojelle]

Tbh I prefer large groups of enemys too. A few big ones looks kinda silly. (looks silly in my mind when thinking about it)

[Drury]

@kovarex The new beam effect is great! By the way, I am wondering what is the meaning of "give us a lot of freedom if we want to use on other places in the game"? It is better if you could provide some example. Thank you very much:D

I mean, that it could be used in some factory machinery in the future.

Remember that tesla coil turret mod you were so excited about? That, please

[Marconos]

Tbh I prefer large groups of enemys too. A few big ones looks kinda silly. (looks silly in my mind when thinking about it)

I agree with this ... of course, I'm not adverse to the idea of 100+ of the big ones coming at one time. That could be interesting.

Keep up the great work guys. Love the game.

[bobingabout]

I read most of what you have in the news post, and basically think "that sounds good" to most of it.

The only thing that really concerns me is Behemoth biters/spitters. You claim you're going to create an optimisation by creating a bigger bitter, how are you going to do this exactly? Are you going to phase out the apearance of the small and medium, and perhaps even large biters as the bigger ones start to apear, hence forcing the game to send only the larger ones, reducing the size of the total army?

I would like to know the stats on these Behemoth biters/spitters if it's not too much to ask... their health, speed, size, resistances, attack damage etc.... colours, you know, so I can compare it with things I've done in my Enemies mod.

[Weresmilodon]

The way i imagine it works is, that each type of alien is worth a certain amount of points. When a raid is being sent, how many, and what kind, is determined by how many points of irritation (or whatever) the alien grouping have. Once the points gets beyond a certain level, a larger critter, worth more points, is sent instead of a smaller, cheaper one.

The optimization would be by reducing the amount of path-finding, and possibly other data kept to remember and guide the attack.

And here is where i have to disagree with the people who want more, more, more. Most of the time, you're not going to see the attack, nevermind participate. Yet it still eats the same resources to happen. Reducing the number by introducing a more powerful creature is the logical response. The alternative is no optimization, or reduced attacks. (Though perhaps this should be moddable for those who want to drown in aliens)

I, for one, also would like for the focus of the game to not be forgotten. This isn't "Alien Shooting Game 2102", or "Tower Defence Game 1762". This is Factorio, Listen to that name. Taste it. FACT-TO-RI-O.

Factorio have never been about anything other then building and optimizing factories to me. The aliens are a nuisance, but one I'm willing to deal with when i have to. The [strikethrough]Unobtanium[/strikethrough] Alien Artifact have never felt like anything more the a placeholder for something yet to come. A reason to go out and slaughter aliens by the hundreds, if not thousands without any other reason. Perhaps, an artificial lengthening of the game, though i don't think that really all that likely.

And, man, what's with me this morning? Typing more then i usually do in months like this...

[Kokelvogel]

...

I, for one, also would like for the focus of the game to not be forgotten. This isn't "Alien Shooting Game 2102", or "Tower Defence Game 1762". This is Factorio, Listen to that name. Taste it. FACT-TO-RI-O.

...

Absolutely true for me, too.

I stumbled across factorio via worth a buy and was fascinated by the complexity of the building mechanics. After playing some time without mods, I have finally given in and implemented peace mod, since I've found that I want to have a chance to just go lego.

I might switch back if I want to explore the fighting aspects, then again I might not ... because I already own any number of games where I can bash pixels to my heart's content.

This doesn't mean that I feel that the fighting aspect of the game is not relevant to other people who have a different approach and I am certainly not trying to tell anyone what to do or how they should play. But seeing how vocal those are who want more biters/different biters and stuff, I think it is time to remind everybody that some of us couldn't care less and would rather have more of the cool factory stuff

And finally, I am very excited about all the effort you are putting into the game. I am hoping for you guys that the "wedding" with Steam goes well. You certainly deserve financial stability/rewards for your great work. So, what do you want for a gift? The fake silver salt shaker or the facsimile plastic "David" statuette?

[Weresmilodon]

I stumbled across factorio via worth a buy and was fascinated by the complexity of the building mechanics. After playing some time without mods, I have finally given in and implemented peace mod, since I've found that I want to have a chance to just go lego.

I assume you mean this peace mod? I've looked at it myself, but i feel like it goes a bit too far. Wyrm had a good suggestion though; having the aliens spawn on top of the Unobtanium ore, so you have to kick them off if you want it.

See, i don't mind the combat itself. I mind that it's forced on us. In the beginning it's reasonable. You're polluting the environment, and irritating the inhabitants, so they strike back. Or you're expanding into their territory, so they defend it. This i don't mind.

It's the latter part that i don't like. The "Oh, i need 50 Artifact, best go attack every gathering of aliens i can find, and rip them out of their rotting corpses." part. It feels forced. Unnecessary.

This is why i like the idea Wyrm had. Let the artifacts be mined and processed like other ores, but make them attractive to the inhabitants. Let the aliens build their bases on those ore patches, and force the conflict that way instead. It would feel much more natural then the arbitrary "best slaughter a few dozen gatherings/villages/cities for their goodies until i have at least this many".

This doesn't mean that I feel that the fighting aspect of the game is not relevant to other people who have a different approach and I am certainly not trying to tell anyone what to do or how they should play. But seeing how vocal those are who want more biters/different biters and stuff, I think it is time to remind everybody that some of us couldn't care less and would rather have more of the cool factory stuff

Yeah, that's why i responded this time. I don't want Factorio to turn into Yet Another Alien Shooter. And the way it sounded in the thread, it felt like it might be a good idea to remind people that there is more to the game. That it has another focus.

Now, i don't really think the Devs would actually change the gameplay focus all that much over a few comments. They have shown good judgement before when it comes to these kind of things. But when all you hear is the same thing repeated all the time, even if just from a tiny portion of the playerbase, and no one ever bother to protest, or say something else? Well, what are you supposed to think?

[ninjadindon]

Will you implement RTS like combat robots selection, move orders for better micro-managements ?

I would love to see very expensive tank (to make and reload) to be part of your defense and be able to palce them dynamicaly around your base.
Furthermore, a "refill station" made of long arms inserters would be a fun thing.

[Kokelvogel]

I assume you mean this peace mod? I've looked at it myself, but i feel like it goes a bit too far.

That's the one As for going too far, that again is a question of how you want to play. Sure, the original game forces you to balance your gameplay, even putting you under a certain amount of pressure time-wise. So obviously, the developers meant it to be that way. And I am aware that one might justifiably argue that peace mod is ... a bit cheating?

But ... if you notice that you feel that having to deal with the aliens is nothing but an unwelcome, often boring chore? If you notice that for you the true action lies in building the best lay-out you can (only to notice that you screwed up somehow and have to start over ), then peace mod is a pretty good option.

Wyrm had a good suggestion though; having the aliens spawn on top of the Unobtanium ore, so you have to kick them off if you want it.

See, i don't mind the combat itself. I mind that it's forced on us. In the beginning it's reasonable. You're polluting the environment, and irritating the inhabitants, so they strike back. Or you're expanding into their territory, so they defend it. This i don't mind.

It's the latter part that i don't like. The "Oh, i need 50 Artifact, best go attack every gathering of aliens i can find, and rip them out of their rotting corpses." part. It feels forced. Unnecessary.

Don't get me wrong, this is not about being an in-your-face pacifist or holier-than-thou-moralist. But I sincerely dislike fighting if I attack something under the circumstances as described above. I can go with the self-denfense aspect of the early game (I crashed, I need to put up some stuff to get rescued, I accept the consequences) but like you I am somewhat disturbed by having to go after aliens just to harvest their artifacts. I could go with a scenario where you have two factions of aliens and you ally with one of them and fight the others.

Haha, and don't hold me to this wanna-be high moral ground when playing other games ...

This is why i like the idea Wyrm had. Let the artifacts be mined and processed like other ores, but make them attractive to the inhabitants. Let the aliens build their bases on those ore patches, and force the conflict that way instead. It would feel much more natural then the arbitrary "best slaughter a few dozen gatherings/villages/cities for their goodies until i have at least this many".

This is my point of view (and need not apply to anybody else): That doesn't really change the moral dilemma. If slaughtering the aliens for sitting on the artifacts feels wrong, slaughtering them for sitting on the ore would feel just as wrong. So that solution wouldn't do a thing for me.

I love the idea of alien ore, though. Mining it and processing it really adds to the game's depth.

Yeah, that's why i responded this time. I don't want Factorio to turn into Yet Another Alien Shooter. And the way it sounded in the thread, it felt like it might be a good idea to remind people that there is more to the game. That it has another focus.

In a nutshell: Yup

Now, i don't really think the Devs would actually change the gameplay focus all that much over a few comments. They have shown good judgement before when it comes to these kind of things. But when all you hear is the same thing repeated all the time, even if just from a tiny portion of the playerbase, and no one ever bother to protest, or say something else? Well, what are you supposed to think?

No, I guess they wouldn't fundamentally change the gameplay just because of a couple of comments If it were that "easy" we would have to make very, very sure the "let's have pink ponies faction" never gets a toehold -.-