[0.12.0] Burner inserters cannot pickup item on Red belt.

Post by **Klonan** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:42 pm

As title, easy to replicate, item moving on red belt, burner inserter hands just try to grab but dont. Saw when power plant wasnt working

OBAMA MCLAMA · Post by **OBAMA MCLAMA** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 4:52 pm

Even fast inserters have trouble picking up items on express belts. Dont know if bug or not but... compress the belt more and they will work.

Post by **Klonan** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:17 pm

OBAMA MCLAMA wrote:Even fast inserters have trouble picking up items on express belts. Dont know if bug or not but... compress the belt more and they will work.

Im pretty sure its a bug, it used to work. Coal is belted through the power assembly, if the boiler needs fuel the burner inserter should pickup the fuel, regardless of belt speed.
I did make a work around, just replaced it with slow transport belts.

Post by **ssilk** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:09 pm

I'm sure it's the same behavior as in 0.10 or 0.11:

Burner inserter <-> Fast belt: Nonono.

Basic inserter <-> Fast Belt: maybe, depends on where you put it. Maybe in curves.
Fast inserter <-> Express belt: Depends - is not reliable, with some "frequencies" of incoming items it cannot grab.

Not a bug. Surprising behavior: yes.

maybe. Maybe also a feature. Not sure about this.

This is normally no problem. If you have a row of 20 furnaces and an express belt, the last inserter (where the item stops/jams) can grab the item without a problem.
So, this behavior is useful to see, if enough items are coming in: If the first furnace in this row doesn't work, then the throughput is still too low. The items are still moving. If they can grab it sometimes, it means: The belt is too long, the items will normally not jam.

The same cannot be told if the inserters can grab per sure: If an furnace at the end gets sometimes an item the overall throughput is eventually still lousy, cause it depends on, in which frequencies the items are coming in. It's an indicator, yes, but it is not reliable with fast/express belts!

A problem comes only, if you built different items on one express belt: The first assembly in that row gets only items, if there is enough throughput, so that the items on the belts are jamming. But there are some ways to make that reliable. It could also be used for the fact, that you built new items (you currently need) at the end and not at the beginning of an belt, so by just placing some fast belts at the right places, you can feed them to the end and the beginning is only feed, if the end doesn't need that much anymore.

From the view of a beginner it is very surprising. But on the other hand it is obvious.

From of view of an advanced player, I would prefer to keep this behavior, because - as said - it is more "reliable" and it is more realistic and if you think a bit also obvious.

If there would not be the fact, that an inserter, that tries to grab something uses also energy, I surely would voter for that, but like so I think it is drawn.

Post by **Klonan** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:09 pm

ssilk wrote:I'm sure it's the same behavior as in 0.10 or 0.11:

Not a bug. Surprising behavior: yes.

maybe. Maybe also a feature. Not sure about this.

This is most definitely a bug, and is not the same behaviour as in 0.11

In this video, recorded in 0.11, the burner inserters have no trouble picking up from fast belt. This is how it should be. https://youtu.be/Qv_vaUhY3Ek

However this is the behaviour of the burner inserters in version 0.12.0: http://youtu.be/7M2NUuWTCzM

As you can see this is not intuitive, negatively affects gameplay and it is obvious to me that it is an unintentional bug, not a feature.

OBAMA MCLAMA · Post by **OBAMA MCLAMA** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 5:48 pm

After i made my last post, i guess i forgot to edit but i remembered ( i think) of an update fixing inserters not being able to pick up an item. Correct me if im wrong but i also remember, as video proof in v11 it worked.

Post by **ssilk** » Fri Jul 24, 2015 6:17 pm

Hm. Strange. I would have bet something, that it was not so.

Found this:
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... low#p43905
https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... lt%2A+grab

Both in 0.9. But I'm sure (not 100% but very sure), that the basic inserters couldn't do it with express belt in 0.10 and 0.11.

Tallinu · Post by **Tallinu** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 3:26 am

Prior to 0.12, items coming off the end of a belt were the only situation in which an inserter would reach for the actual location of the item instead of magically snatching it off the belt without having to move. Now, we no longer have items pushed off the ends of belts, but all inserters seem to have to move to pick an item up from its actual location on a belt instead of the previous instant-grab behavior. This means that slower moving inserters with faster belts (whether they're moving slowly due to their own speed cap or due to low power conditions) will miss their initial targets, and unless there are more items on the line, they'll return to rest position with nothing to show for the motion. This can cause burner inserters to run out of fuel, and does waste power on electrical inserters.

I'm not sure if it qualifies as a bug, but it is certainly a change in behavior.

kosievdmerwe · Post by **kosievdmerwe** » Sun Jul 26, 2015 7:03 am

The bug I reported is likely related to whatever is causing this issue:

[0.12.0-0.12.1] non-fast Insert can't grab items on belts

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