Factorio Forums

Hi!

I am lost in finding out the energy value of fluids. For example I can convert 1 Coal Briquette (180MJ) + Alkane Gas + Refined SynGas to 400 Combustion Misture (1000°). But I have not the slightest clue what this means in numbers. In other words: Is that good? And how to find out?

Fuel values for fluids have been a bit hacked in. Same with pollution multipliers for fluids and recipes.

You can see a fluid's fuel value if you mouse-over a storage tank or a pipe that has the fluid in it and then look at the info panel on the right. But the recipe for the fluid in the crafting tab doesn't show it. So you have to have some of that fluid sloshing around in the world before you can find out what its fuel value is.

There is also no way of seeing a fluid's pollution multiplier anywhere in the game except the pollution statistics tab. Same for recipe-specific pollution multipliers.

Modders using any of these values are forced to add all of this info manually to the localised description.

But the formula also needs the efficiency value of the combustion engine, right? So the fuel value alone isnt the complete answer I suppose.

combustun mixture is used in the turbines to make power. there is a mk1-mk3 and each one takes a maxium of 1000 degree fluid to give max power. if you use one of the recipes with with lower temp you will get less power. the mk1 turbine gives about 24mw at 1000 degrees. mk2 is 56 i think and mk3 is 130MW.

the turbines mk1 and mk2 consume 60/s when being used at full capacity. mk3 is 90/s

kingarthur wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:32 pm combustun mixture is used in the turbines to make power. there is a mk1-mk3 and each one takes a maxium of 1000 degree fluid to give max power. if you use one of the recipes with with lower temp you will get less power. the mk1 turbine gives about 24mw at 1000 degrees. mk2 is 56 i think and mk3 is 130MW.

the turbines mk1 and mk2 consume 60/s when being used at full capacity. mk3 is 90/s

Specifically, just like with steam engines, you can calculate the value of a unit of combustion mixture of temperature T in a fixed type of turbine by taking the max power of the turbine, divided by the max fluid usage of the turbine, multiplied by (T-15)/(1000-15). Note that this doesn't actually need the efficiency of the turbine anywhere; you only need that when you try to compare the efficacy of turbines of different tiers.

Blokus wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:51 pm

kingarthur wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 8:32 pm combustun mixture is used in the turbines to make power. there is a mk1-mk3 and each one takes a maxium of 1000 degree fluid to give max power. if you use one of the recipes with with lower temp you will get less power. the mk1 turbine gives about 24mw at 1000 degrees. mk2 is 56 i think and mk3 is 130MW.

the turbines mk1 and mk2 consume 60/s when being used at full capacity. mk3 is 90/s

Specifically, just like with steam engines, you can calculate the value of a unit of combustion mixture of temperature T in a fixed type of turbine by taking the max power of the turbine, divided by the max fluid usage of the turbine, multiplied by (T-15)/(1000-15). Note that this doesn't actually need the efficiency of the turbine anywhere; you only need that when you try to compare the efficacy of turbines of different tiers.

1 not sure if the default temperature is 15
2 all combustion mix recipes re good tho i prefer the syngas and all petroleum product ones
3 now whit glycerol from tholems high end builds are more viable so u can go for it

Pretty sure the base temperature is 15C. That is definitely how steam works and I don't think Lua can even target that part of the calculation if the modder wanted to. When I've checked in-game the numbers have been consistent with that formula to within 100 kW.

Also tholin based combustion mixture builds seem to only be viable once you have mk2 turbines. Until then you wind up reinvesting most of the power into making the tholins and converting them (to e.g. benzene). You wind up better off just throwing more coal into making coke and syngas.

Blokus wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:01 pm Pretty sure the base temperature is 15C. That is definitely how steam works and I don't think Lua can even target that part of the calculation if the modder wanted to. When I've checked in-game the numbers have been consistent with that formula to within 100 kW.

Also tholin based combustion mixture builds seem to only be viable once you have mk2 turbines. Until then you wind up reinvesting most of the power into making the tholins and converting them (to e.g. benzene). You wind up better off just throwing more coal into making coke and syngas.

I MADE FLUIDS WITH 0 AS THE BASE VALUE
also regarding tholens you need to beacon them hard and only go got glycerol in the case of the bricks
i prefer tar > coalgas>syngas>power

immortal_sniper1 wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:51 pm

Blokus wrote: Wed May 29, 2019 10:01 pm Pretty sure the base temperature is 15C. That is definitely how steam works and I don't think Lua can even target that part of the calculation if the modder wanted to. When I've checked in-game the numbers have been consistent with that formula to within 100 kW.

Also tholin based combustion mixture builds seem to only be viable once you have mk2 turbines. Until then you wind up reinvesting most of the power into making the tholins and converting them (to e.g. benzene). You wind up better off just throwing more coal into making coke and syngas.

I MADE FLUIDS WITH 0 AS THE BASE VALUE
also regarding tholens you need to beacon them hard and only go got glycerol in the case of the bricks
i prefer tar > coalgas>syngas>power

I see you're right that the default temperature is tweakable, but it is in fact 15 for combustion mixture anyway, as I just checked. Checking that also gave the heat capacity as 1 kJ, so you could instead compute the production of a turbine (in kW) as efficiency times fluid consumption times (T-15).

(Also, seriously, can you lay off with the caps? Seems like every single post of yours I read has at least some all caps, and it's really irritating.)

So my question is about the turbines. Is the max power rounded? Or the efficiency percentage?

Because if tier 1 is exactly 42%, then the max power is actually 985*60/s*1kj*.42 = 24822 kilo joules, not 24800.

Or if it's exactly 24800kj, then the efficiency is actually 41.962775%.

Obviously these numbers are close but I would prefer to know which one is the accurate one (and same for higher tier turbines, should I believe the max power or efficiency percentage?)

Crixomix wrote: Fri Jun 28, 2019 2:22 pm So my question is about the turbines. Is the max power rounded? Or the efficiency percentage?

Because if tier 1 is exactly 42%, then the max power is actually 985*60/s*1kj*.42 = 24822 kilo joules, not 24800.

Or if it's exactly 24800kj, then the efficiency is actually 41.962775%.

Obviously these numbers are close but I would prefer to know which one is the accurate one (and same for higher tier turbines, should I believe the max power or efficiency percentage?)

The max is rounded in the display. The efficiency and fluid energy values are exact. (That said I cannot imagine a situation where you would actually care about those extra 22 kW...)