Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

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GamesDan
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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by GamesDan » Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:22 pm

Changes look great to me. But I agree with those who don't like how a minimum and maximum of 0 for items on the logistics panel displays no quantity at all. I don't think it's clear at a glance what is going on. It feels like you are requesting one of that thing. I would like to see a small "x" or something similarly obvious where the numbers would otherwise be. Even a single zero would be better, I think.

I also like the idea some have mentioned of having the minimum in the lower right corner and the maximum in the upper right corner. The numbers being so close to each other in location and appearance is going to result in misinterpretations at a glance.

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Therax
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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by Therax » Mon Apr 08, 2019 9:17 pm

(3) Panel tabs: The regular system of tabs takes quite some extra space, so in order to keep a compact design we decided to use a new system for tabs attached to the panel itself. This is a measure we take due to the importance of this player window compared to some other panels. When a tab is selected it looks like a title for the panel frame and the inactive ones are like regular tabs.
(5) Requested amount is specified and maximum (bigger) amount is specified as well: We show the numbers in a column following the order of min/max.
Will these two features, panel-level tabs and buttons showing 2 numbers in an over-under format, be made available through the mod GUI API?
Miniloader — UPS-friendly 1x1 loaders
Bulk Rail Loaders — Rapid train loading and unloading
Beltlayer & Pipelayer — Route items and fluids freely underground

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by skyyy » Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:07 am

I love this, and can't wait to play with it! My comments:

The click targets on the close/info/search buttons seem really small. Could you make them bigger?

How do you set the request/trash numbers? Today has a slider, which is fine. I see the +/- buttons labeled (9), but I don't see how they'd be used.

Any chance you could fit the armor equipment grid in the character menu, or would it require another click to get to?

All the different cases for the logistics requests numbers seem kind of confusing. A few ideas on what might make that easier to quickly understand:
* I don't like how each number means something different depending on the context and how many numbers there are. I just read the post and I couldn't tell you right now whether a single number means trash, request, or both. I think always putting the trash number in one spot (probably top right), and always putting the request number in another (probably bottom right), would be easier to learn.
* I'd associate no number to mean no action. No request number means 0 requested. No trash number means no autotrashing. This would be instead of putting an explicit 0 or infinity.
* Conversely, I'd think auto trashing automatically would be easier to understand if it had a 0, rather than being totally blank, since blank seems like no action. (The 0 could be accompanied by other styling, like greying it out or something.)

Together those three rules would mean
* if you see a number in the place where request numbers go, robots will bring you stuff. If there's no number there, they won't.
* If you see a number in the place where the trash numbers go, robots will auto trash your stuff. If there's no number there, they won't.

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by Infern0mike » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:06 am

I strongly agree with some of the previous posters requesting a feature to temporarily turn logistic requests/max capacities on and off. It would be really nice to be able to have a request in place in general, and not have to manually remove it when e.g. temporarily needing to carry more of a "trash" item, only to have to manually reset it again later. An on/off feature would be more convenient. The same goes for temporarily disabling logistic requests when entering an expansion, because you wouldn't want to drain the storage of the expansion only to refill your inventory to the set request count.
Last edited by Infern0mike on Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by Infern0mike » Tue Apr 09, 2019 11:10 am

And I also concur with the idea of adding a toggle to turn belt immunity on/off, rather than having to manually remove and reinsert it into the armor every time you want to change its state. You've already done it with pers. roboport and exoskeleton, which is an absolutely great idea - why not add it for belt immunity as well?

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by kyborek » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:25 pm

I must say that i really love the dev team for this update - You even made me log into forum after months.
The overhaul of logistics tab is totally the thing that i needed so much - setting min/max for everything.

And i must say that i am very surprised by the logistic request tooltip - i never noticed it and i wouldn't have ever known about it if it weren't for theese FFF.

One thing comes to my mind - wouldn't it be useful if we had kind of item "categories" or "tags" preconfigured? For example there could be a tag "raw ore" which would include iron ore, copper ore, uranium ore, ... and then you could simply set one logistic slot to trash all the ore from your inventory. This might be especially useful with mods that add like 10+ ore types and you need to trash each of them.
It would however bring back some other problems like what if you requested 50 copper ore and also wanted to trash all raw ore - loop again.

As for previous post about toggling belt immunity on/off i think it would be more useful if it automatically switched off while you are going in the same direction as belt is. You go against belt? - regular speed. You go on a belt? - increased speed.

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by coderpatsy » Tue Apr 09, 2019 4:34 pm

If you want to move precisely in the same direction as a belt an automatic disable would still be annoying. So as I see it a toggle definitely would be better. Though making the toggle between fully on and on except when moving with a belt wouldn't be bad at all.

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by york2dx48 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:46 pm

I feel like Buttons 4,5,6 in the Crafting Tab are way to small. Specifically the search Button. I would use "search" to speed up the process of finding an item, so I would not want to waste time aiming for this button. ^^
Is there a shortcut coming for the search feature?

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by noob_hoarder » Wed Apr 10, 2019 7:34 am

york2dx48 wrote:
Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:46 pm
Is there a shortcut coming for the search feature?
The shortcut is already shown in the tooltip (in-game)... And unsurprisingly, it's Ctrl+F. Also it's available, even for reassigning, in the keybinds: "Focus item search". :geek:

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by Neruz » Fri Apr 12, 2019 11:32 am

hey folks,
looks and reads great! thanks a lot for your ongoing work.

while you on it, could it be possible to let a UI "remember" its position? like dragging my inventory to a possition and let it reappear there? that would be big plus for me.

thanks! greetings

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by Pawz » Fri Apr 12, 2019 12:06 pm

So I was thinking about the requests for being able to enable / disable logistics, grouping things so you can have presets for building and, the idea that logistics slots were going to hold the 'concept' of items,(like the toolbar) and it occurred to me. Why not integrate the toolbar *into* logistics?

If the user has spent the time setting up his toolbar, why make him do it again in a separate logistics ui?


Image

1. Regular button, but colored based on

- Green = actively requesting
- Grey = Not requesting
- Orange = Actively trashing

2. Show colored tiles as suggested, but with a light number in the top left indicating remaining items to be delivered

3. Add 4 buttons
- disable / enable logistics for row
- trash /untrash row
- 'set logistics' (sets all logistics requests to the currently held items in that row)
- 'clear logistics (removes all logistics settings)

4. Add the ability to add / remove more toolbars. Also add 1 toolbar row at the top for 'junk' items you want to get rid of always (just give it a garbage can icon instead of a #)


In the logistics screen in the character UI, you could view the same details, and edit them directly using the interface as-is pretty much. Maybe a middle-click on the logistics screen automatically sets the request value

Image
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Making Sniper Turrets Balanced Again aka Run Run the Swarm is Coming (Swarmageddon)
How it Should Have Started - A less 'cheaty' quick start (You won't want to play w/o this anymore)
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Solinya
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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by Solinya » Sat Apr 13, 2019 1:39 am

All my comments have already been mentioned but just adding my voice in support:

- The search button at that size will be very hard to click on.
- Items with a maximum of 0 could use a clear indicator that those items are being trashed (like a trash can icon).
- Hopefully there's some way to re-arrange the logistics and trash requests to keep the pane organized.
- Hopefully loaded ammo (and battery level) will still be visible on the main screen so it's easier to tell when it's time to run. Constantly having to open the character window during combat while taking on challenging bases would be a step backward.
- A way to enable/disable fulfilling logistics requests would be nice for the cases mentioned (respawning being the big one).
- The current system with the separate trash means most logistic requests default to a "at least this level" request. I hope that stays or is easy to persist, as there are a number of items where having a little more than the request isn't harmful, especially in the midgame. See belts, intermediate products, building facilities, etc. Modifying an outpost layout may mean I have temporarily more miners and smelters in my inventory than the minimum number I request, and wanting an exact amount tends to be the more rare case for me.
- We need that information for "not enough items in storage but they're being built...really slowly" as this case also happens a lot in the early logistics to rocket stage where the system or new components are being set up but haven't reached the stage where there's both a constant production supply and a big enough buffer to accommodate character requests.

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by Mr. Tact » Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:51 pm

trad_emark wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:53 pm
RGB is for computers
use HSV for humans
Okay, I doubt it was intended but this was very funny. You don't get what you might expect by Goggling "HSV"... :lol:
Professional Curmudgeon since 1988.

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by Ophidahlia » Tue Apr 23, 2019 7:58 pm

I'm so pumped about the new GUI!

There's a few QOL improvements I'd LOVE to see implemented, specifically in the logistics screen. I find the interface here clunky, which is actually getting frustrating as I after getting a decent logistics network going I primarily use the logistics bots to manage the inventory, so I actually use it more than the inventory itself as I rely so much on the new hotbar system with custom keyboard shortcuts (alt + scroll wheel to change quickbars is SO slick). So, this might seem nitpicky but it's a feature I'm using literally constantly so it should be seamless and not be something that needs to be wrestled with.

(1) When you add or modify a requested item, you have to click a second time and then either manually delete the default number or click & drag across it to change the quantity. Instead, the cursor should auto-populate in this field with the text highlighted so you can just tap a couple numbers and close the window.

(2) The slider bar needs markers so you can get visual feedback about the amount you are adjusting before you make the adjustment, even better if it gently clipped to the markers instead of seeing the amount change only after the adjustment. The max amount is 50k for every item; even with a full mk2 power armor inventory and the biggest stack size (I think) of 200, the most of any item you can hold is 24k and most items are lower than this. This makes it frustating to use the slider bar as the difference between a handful of stacks and an absurd amounts can be very precise & inconsistent between items. Typically I'll just want either one full stack, a certain number of stacks, or a small specific amount for a single recipe that the slider doesn't even offer so I just have to type it in anyway. It's REALLY tricky to change the amount back to a single stack, it's actually easier to delete the item, open the selector menu, select the category tab, and click on the item again. The slider bar should just request how many stacks you want, from 1 stack on the far left to 120 stacks on the far left, giving the most selection room for 1-10 stacks.

(3) You're probably already working on this kind of stuff, but having the option to display the item selector as one large divided pane would mean you don't have to click for the categories. Similarly, being able to have the auto-trash visible with the logistics tab would mean less clicking and you could be aware of your overall logistics control without having to jump between screens.

(4) Opacity controls for the hotbar and minimap would be SO DAMN RAD.

Anyway, keep up the good work, I'm sure whatever you folks come up with will be an improvement on what is already a pretty good design. <3

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by Delzur » Tue May 07, 2019 8:53 am

Hey,

I'm quite happy about the coloured icons for current Logistics status.
As a matter of fact, I'm maintaining a small mod that does this, but on a dedicated UI: LogisticRequestHinter

I'd like to know if you could provide helpers about this, for example the "all items delivered" does not exist yet in the API, so I get all inventories and calculate if it's fully delivered or not. Since you're now doing this as well, can you expose that information directly so I can rely on it?

Secondly, I'd greatly appreciate if we could have more info about the bots activity; for example: get all that are coming our way, allowing to tell the player when he is going to receive the first object (or whatever else).

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by Delzur » Thu May 23, 2019 9:35 am

Still interested in the information requested above :(

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Re: Friday Facts #289 - Character GUI

Post by trad_emark » Thu May 23, 2019 4:00 pm

Mr. Tact wrote:
Sat Apr 20, 2019 8:51 pm
trad_emark wrote:
Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:53 pm
RGB is for computers
use HSV for humans
Okay, I doubt it was intended but this was very funny. You don't get what you might expect by Goggling "HSV"... :lol:
OMG, LOL, I apologize :D
I meant hue-saturation-value color space ofc.

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