Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

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Naxix
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Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

Post by Naxix » Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:31 pm

Hello! I'm quite new to Factorio, however, i was certain that i finally had gotten the grip of train signaling.
I decided that i needed a hexagon shaped track for my next build, and i found multiple examples hereof, however, not really suited for my needs.

Now i'm stuck a doing the signaling of the intersection cornors, and based on the "rules", i learned for signaling intersections it seems it's not
doable for this track (Too narrow tracks for the turn). I marked the 2 points which i believed made it impossible, since i would've placed a regular stop signal in the gap which isn't present because the tracks lay ontop of each other. But i'd appreciate if someone with a bit more knowledge than me, could deny/confirm whether it's possible.

Oh, and the way i signal intersections is by the following "rules" which i memorised from a tutorial written by Grays42 on reddit:

1. Stop signals are placed before the exit blocks of each line exiting the intersection
2. Chain signals are placed on each line leading to an encounter

Images of intersection (With and without signal blocks):
https://imgur.com/a/IApO160

GrumpyJoe
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Re: Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

Post by GrumpyJoe » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:19 pm

Welcome to the forums

you dont absolutely need signals at the marked spots
But i think you violated your "own" rules
You probably wanna "block off" the intersection from the tracks leading north, so place a normal one just after the north line leaves. otherwise a train leaving will block the whole thing until it has reached the next blocks.
You dont need to create that short yellow line at the bottom right, just a chain signal. I think thats where you placed that "merging" normal signal when you didn´t find room.
the normal one between the player model and the substation also needs to be a chain one.
at the top right of the "blue cross" you dont want a normal signal, as it could lead a train in that cant leave, therefore blocking trains from the north

In general, just build bigger, you´ll always need more room. Thats not only for tracks, but its easy to mess up signaling when there is no room to do it the "right" way.

As ive just used those tristar intersections the first time, i have no idea if it works, but that should be a better way to signal it.
maybe.png
maybe.png (1.39 MiB) Viewed 559 times
The way tracks are layed (90/45°), i think you cant make room for the signals you wanted, without making it look weird. You´d need something like 30/60° angles for tracks as well. otherwise they´ll always meet that tight

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Re: Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

Post by Serenity » Wed Feb 06, 2019 7:50 pm

Yeah, that should work. I've come to the same conclusion

The general rules still apply here. Chain signals before crossings. Normal signals after. Signals before merges.

With multiple crossings after another the chain signals look to the next chain signal. This allows another train to enter an intersection earlier than if a train had to clear the entire intersection. You can see that here:
Rail.jpg
Rail.jpg (253.95 KiB) Viewed 547 times
The blue train can go after the red one clears the second chain signal

Naxix
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Re: Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

Post by Naxix » Wed Feb 06, 2019 8:40 pm

Thank you so much both of you!

I definitely learned something new. I only have about 80 hours in this game, but i'm amazed as to how much complexity
one can bring to this game if one so chooses. I spaghettied my way through in the first game with belts across the map,
but i decided i wanted a new playthrough useing mostly trains and bots to get the hang of these.

Again thank you!
- Naxix

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Re: Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

Post by AngledLuffa » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:32 am

As a general principle, the reason the spots you marked don't need signals is there's no way to fit two trains into those spots. For example, if a train is on the southernmost track going west to southeast, because there are no signals there, the trains going from north to southeast and from west to north are blocked. However, that's exactly what you want to happen in this case.

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Re: Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

Post by Blinky » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:37 pm

I know this is already solved but what I tend to do with things like this is to just make the whole intersection 1 big block. It will slow your trains down slightly if you've got lots of trains going through at the same time but much simpler, if less elegant.
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Re: Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

Post by AngledLuffa » Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:29 am

The trains plan ahead quite a bit, so you'll see trains stopping because of a train going the other direction that isn't interfering at all. Slows down the transit time significantly if they have to brake and the accelerate again.

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Re: Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

Post by GrumpyJoe » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:05 am

AngledLuffa wrote:
Thu Feb 14, 2019 1:29 am
The trains plan ahead quite a bit, so you'll see trains stopping because of a train going the other direction that isn't interfering at all.
That shouldn´t be the case, at least how you discribed it.
Lets say train A plans ahead, reserves a path for itself, blocking a section.
If train B isn´t using any of these blocks, they would just pass each other like on straight tracks.

This post confused me abit, until i realized it´s probably meant as a response to "make the whole intersection one block".
Should say that "wouldn´t interfere at all if you made blocks" ?

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Re: Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

Post by AngledLuffa » Thu Feb 14, 2019 7:48 am

This post confused me abit, until i realized it´s probably meant as a response to "make the whole intersection one block".
Yes, sorry, I was lazy and didn't quote. If an intersection is one entire block, I expect two trains going in opposite directions to interfere with each other, even if they aren't crossing paths.

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Re: Train signaling of hexagon cornor intersection

Post by mrvn » Thu Feb 14, 2019 12:46 pm

Naxix wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 6:31 pm
Oh, and the way i signal intersections is by the following "rules" which i memorised from a tutorial written by Grays42 on reddit:

1. Stop signals are placed before the exit blocks of each line exiting the intersection
2. Chain signals are placed on each line leading to an encounter

Images of intersection (With and without signal blocks):
https://imgur.com/a/IApO160
By "exiting the intersection" the rules mean the intersection as a whole. Not just part of it. So no stop signals in the middle of it. The rules should be modified like this:

1. Signals are placed before two or more tracks converge, after they split split and before and after they cross.
2. Stop signals are preferred but signals can only be stop signals when a train stopping at the next signal will not hinder the flow. Which basically means when there is enough space after the signal to fit a train.

add to that:

3. For any 2 chain signals in a row the second is optional but might improve flow. If the 2 signals are on a single track with no other track merging, splitting or crossing it never has a benefit.

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